How Californians Feel About California (crimes, how much, public school)

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Yeah and California tax payers get very little return on the federal taxes that go to support for the Southern states. I guess we should gripe about all the lazy white Southerners taking our hard earned tax money!

Amen to that, especially considering how frequently you also see their "kin" and descendants here in the Central Valley, collecting SSI, welfare, food stamps, social services, etc., even while they're usually the first to complain about "immigrants"! And also like the South, these are always our poorest and least-educated areas too.

Originally Posted by mrwumpus

You are correct, but I think what the poster is talking about are the millions of immigrants primarily from Latin America who have entered California illegally. They have created a massive social and economic burden that would not otherwise exist from normal, lawful immigration.

Unless you've lived here a few decades, or generations as my family has, you will not be able to know by experience what changes and damages this massive influx has effected. And since most Californians are not native Californians, they tend to just assume it has always been this way. But stay here 30 or 40 years and you'll know what I'm talking about. But I bet you won't stay here that long, unless you can buy your way into gated citadels of comfort and private schools for your children.

Well, no matter how long they've lived here, as anybody who's actually seen the rest of the state knows, all of it isn't like SoCal. And BTW, no doubt Native Americans (aka the "Indians"), who've also "lived here a few decades", might have an interesting opinion re: the "millions of immigrants" who entered their country "illegally"...

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by mateo45

Amen to that, especially considering how frequently you also see their "kin" and descendants here in the Central Valley, collecting SSI, welfare, food stamps, social services, etc., even while they're usually the first to complain about "immigrants"! And also like the South, these are always our poorest and least-educated areas too.



Well, no matter how long they've lived here, as anybody who's actually seen the rest of the state knows, all of it isn't like SoCal. And BTW, no doubt Native Americans (aka the "Indians"), who've also "lived here a few decades", might have an interesting opinion re: the "millions of immigrants" who entered their country "illegally"...

Did you know that California has the largest native American population of any state? They were given crappy land\ reservations in the desert & now are raking in $ big time with casinos poetic justice.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by mateo45

Amen to that, especially considering how frequently you also see their "kin" and descendants here in the Central Valley, collecting SSI, welfare, food stamps, social services, etc., even while they're usually the first to complain about "immigrants"! And also like the South, these are always our poorest and least-educated areas too.

There's definitely some truth to this. But it's also true California taxes a lot and delivers poor value overall in return for taxes paid. California used to be a high tax/high quality public services state (above average public schools, cheap college tuition, etc.) Now, we're a high tax/low quality public services state. The university tuition has skyrocketed, the public shools s*ck, etc. And this is despite spending a lot of money on these things. I'm not just making this up. Even some in the left wing college professor crowd are finally starting to admit this:

The Golden State isn't worth it - Los Angeles Times

Originally Posted by mateo45

Well, no matter how long they've lived here, as anybody who's actually seen the rest of the state knows, all of it isn't like SoCal.

It's true not all California is like SoCal. But SoCal has the bulk of the state's population. So what's happening in SoCal has a large effect on what's happening in the state as a whole. Issues relating to illegal immigrantion in the Bay Area and the Central Valley are also significant, if not quite as intense as in SoCal.

Originally Posted by mateo45

And BTW, no doubt Native Americans (aka the "Indians"), who've also "lived here a few decades", might have an interesting opinion re: the "millions of immigrants" who entered their country "illegally"...

While that's true, there's nothing that can be done about it at this point in time. Bottom line is we're going to become a 3rd World country if we allow large numbers of unskilled immigrants to come here illegally. (Granted, this is not the only thing we're doing that's taking us in the wrong direction...but it is a signficant one). And it's also true that the assimilation process is slower for those who can cross a land border vs those who cross an ocean. Those who crossed the oceans to come here were effectively forced to assimilate more quickly. Those who can go back and forth with relative ease assimilate more slowly. It's just human nature

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Did you know that California has the largest native American population of any state? They were given crappy land\ reservations in the desert & now are raking in $ big time with casinos poetic justice.

To your first point--California is the largest state by population in the US. So the fact that it has the largest Native American pop. isn't all that significant. To your second point---it just goes to show 'ya there's always a way to turn lemons into lemonade. Poetic justice, indeed.

[Curmudgeon]

We may not live in California anymore but I think I qualify to respond since my wife and I are both natives and we each spent the bulk of our lives there; having relocated only recently.

How do we feel about California? We love the state of our births, the varied terrain, the ever changing landscape, the ocean fronts, the mountains, not so much the deserts, the weather choices with abundant micro-climates and many of the societal differences, some of which are almost across the streets from one another. Truly, there is something and some place for almost everyone. There is also the richness of mixed cultures and all that entails.

We have both had the opportunity and experiences of living in other states and countries which has enabled us to make a knowing choice about where we ended up in retirement -- a return to a familiar landscape and culture for both of us.

Again, how do we feel? We're happy to be where we are and had the culture and cost of California not changed so drastically over the years since our youths, we'd still be there. But we still have children and grandchildren living in that most beautiful state so we will continue to both care and be concerned about it.

[chacho_keva]

I've lived in California an even 30 years. Sadly, my adaptation to the prevalent culture has been marginal at best.

Admittedly, I was impressed with the state and most of the residents I met during the first 15 years. Unfortunately, this is not the place it was. Illegal immigration has chewed up and spit out any resemblance of what this place was like. Not so sure the illegal immigration issue will ever be resolved within my lifetime.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

We may not live in California anymore but I think I qualify to respond since my wife and I are both natives and we each spent the bulk of our lives there; having relocated only recently.

How do we feel about California? We love the state of our births, the varied terrain, the ever changing landscape, the ocean fronts, the mountains, not so much the deserts, the weather choices with abundant micro-climates and many of the societal differences, some of which are almost across the streets from one another. Truly, there is something and some place for almost everyone. There is also the richness of mixed cultures and all that entails.

We have both had the opportunity and experiences of living in other states and countries which has enabled us to make a knowing choice about where we ended up in retirement -- a return to a familiar landscape and culture for both of us.

Again, how do we feel? We're happy to be where we are and had the culture and cost of California not changed so drastically over the years since our youths, we'd still be there. But we still have children and grandchildren living in that most beautiful state so we will continue to both care and be concerned about it.

Come on, Curmudgeon, we know you want to come back home!

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by californio sur

Come on, Curmudgeon, we know you want to come back home!

Sorry, CS. LOL! We're home now. But California will always be a tug for us. Gotta admit it.

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

There's definitely some truth to this. But it's also true California taxes a lot and delivers poor value overall in return for taxes paid. California used to be a high tax/high quality public services state (above average public schools, cheap college tuition, etc.) Now, we're a high tax/low quality public services state. The university tuition has skyrocketed, the public shools s*ck, etc. And this is despite spending a lot of money on these things. I'm not just making this up. Even some in the left wing college professor crowd are finally starting to admit this:

The Golden State isn't worth it - Los Angeles Times

It's true not all California is like SoCal. But SoCal has the bulk of the state's population. So what's happening in SoCal has a large effect on what's happening in the state as a whole. Issues relating to illegal immigrantion in the Bay Area and the Central Valley are also significant, if not quite as intense as in SoCal.

While that's true, there's nothing that can be done about it at this point in time. Bottom line is we're going to become a 3rd World country if we allow large numbers of unskilled immigrants to come here illegally. (Granted, this is not the only thing we're doing that's taking us in the wrong direction...but it is a signficant one). And it's also true that the assimilation process is slower for those who can cross a land border vs those who cross an ocean. Those who crossed the oceans to come here were effectively forced to assimilate more quickly. Those who can go back and forth with relative ease assimilate more slowly. It's just human nature

I was kinda following you there 'til 'you got into the gratuitous "ideology" (like "left wing college professor crowd")! Surely you don't have a problem with higher education?

Understood re: "tax vs quality of services", but you also seem to casually ignore the impact of Prop. 13. Whatever its merits, are you suggesting all that lost revenue had no effect?

I do agree that conditions in SoCal heavily impact the rest of us (unchecked development and the demand for water also being among them). But while it's true that all politics is ultimately "local", still this is a huge & diverse state. And my point is that so much of the complaining about "illegals", "quality of life", etc. and wanting statewide "changes", seems to be coming from folks who apparently never venture any further than their local "neighborhood" and "their own kind".

For example, here in my neck o' the woods, which depends so heavily on agriculture, things would pretty much come to a screechin' halt without the presence of "immigrants" (legal or otherwise). And yet it's mostly the "native-born anglos" that you'll see around here on disability, welfare, food stamps, social services, etc.... often the very same ones who complain mightily about "illegals", but wouldn't be caught dead working out in those fields!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by mateo45

things would pretty much come to a screechin' halt without the presence of "immigrants" (legal or otherwise). And yet it's mostly the "native-born anglos" that you'll see around here on disability, welfare, food stamps, social services, etc.... often the very same ones who complain mightily about "illegals", but wouldn't be caught dead working out in those fields!

Why don't farmers just pay Americans $30+/hour plus full benefits (401(k), tuition reimbursement, PPO, etc) to work in the fields?