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Old 04-11-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,735 posts, read 18,447,923 times
Reputation: 6437

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There are alot of dangerous jobs in this world. Many cops think they are james bond when in reality they are more like barney fife on mayberry rfd. I believe the avg salary should be 50k yr plus benefits. A chp cadet should make 2k month plus benefits, room & board & meals, etc. But this is ca after all so all public workers get paid the best in the nation.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:33 PM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,548,775 times
Reputation: 24868
Quote:
Originally Posted by native56 View Post
I'm probably one of the most critical people you could find when it comes to government workers' pay. Once Jerry Brown gave them collective bargaining they proceeded to bankrupt the state. That having been said I don't have a problem with high salaries for law enforcement. They have a miserable job to perform especially in a place like CA. Would you do their work?
The pay is not the worst of it. It's the generous benefit formula for the pensions they get, which is even more generous than what regular state employees get.

At some point, we have to admit that we simply can't write a blank check to police, firemen, & prison guards. Their salaries and benefits are consuming larger and larger shares of state and local government payrolls. This can't continue forever. When people see their library hours slashed by 1/3, & their parks & streets not being maintaned, maybe they'll reconsider. And by the way, that's exactly what's about to happen in my city come July. It's proposed the libraries will only be open 3 days a week. Park maintenance slashed. They're considering turning off 1/3 of the streetlights, etc.

I have seen the greed of police & firemen for far too long now. I acknowledge other public service employess can be greedy, too, but police, fire, & prison guards are the absolute worst offenders and it's time the general public get wise to it.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-11-2010 at 02:04 PM..
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:33 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,514,657 times
Reputation: 29081
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle7 View Post
There are alot of dangerous jobs in this world. Many cops think they are james bond when in reality they are more like barney fife on mayberry rfd. I believe the avg salary should be 50k yr plus benefits. A chp cadet should make 2k month plus benefits, room & board & meals, etc. But this is ca after all so all public workers get paid the best in the nation.
I do enjoy it when ignorance and lack of direct experience speaks out so loudly. But take heart! Ignorance can be fixed. Only stupid is forever!
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:37 PM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,548,775 times
Reputation: 24868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassberto View Post
I support law enforcement but 130k for a beat cop is way too high, it should be more like 80k. Yes police is a hard job and we need them but the skills required do not justify that type of salary.
84K is the starting salary in San Jose. That doesn't include the overtime and other perks. Within 3 years, they're into 6 figures. And SJ is a pretty safe city. San Francisco & Oakland cops get paid less and have much worse working conditions.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,249,281 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I do enjoy it when ignorance and lack of direct experience speaks out so loudly. But take heart! Ignorance can be fixed. Only stupid is forever!
Here's where we agree, Curmudgeon

eagle7 comments were not only borderline ignorant but offensive to any Californian who is safer because of the bravery of our police force [all of us should be very grateful]. "barney fife"? Please!
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,735 posts, read 18,447,923 times
Reputation: 6437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I do enjoy it when ignorance and lack of direct experience speaks out so loudly. But take heart! Ignorance can be fixed. Only stupid is forever!
I said many cops but not all. A cop often uses his badge & gun to show off their authority while off duty. I have seen it happen over the years. Alot of men/women became cops cause they were bullied & teased during their school years. Im not saying all cops are bad but some are. You live in a small state compared to ca so you dont see what we see on a wide scale base. Over the yrs i have seen cops harass innocent people just for the kicks. If they didnt have a badge & gun it would of been a different story. I have though met a few really nice cops. I just do my thing & dont look for trouble.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:55 PM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,548,775 times
Reputation: 24868
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1 View Post
1. Cops and COs don't get paid ENOUGH for what they risk and put up with.
2. In my observation, people who constantly complain about what public employees are making usually turn out to be people who couldn't get hired and are still bitter.
3.For the record, I'm a homeowner and taxpayer in California.
Cops are not the only people in the world with high risk jobs. It's probably more dangerous to be a truck driver, construction worker, or convenience store clerk if you're talking about the chances of being injured or killed on the job. Yet none of those jobs provide the pay or lavish pensions that CA public safety employees get---starting as early as age 50. At some point, we have to say enough is enough.

To your point #2. I can say I defnitely AM bitter, but not for the reasons you mention. I've worked in the public sector and seen police & firemen get raises while the rest of city workers took pay freezes. In good times, the police & firemen get better raises than everyone else. In the 13 years I've been working in the public sector, I've seen their salaries & benefits take a larger and larger share of the city paroll. That extra 1% or 2% a year over and above what the other unions get adds up to a huge premium over 13 years (and it's been going on for longer than that).

Now we've reached the point where there are going to be major layoffs. All the departments in my city were asked to submit budget cutting proposals of up to 35%!!!!!!! How much did they ask the police & fire to cut???? 7.8%....most of which will be vacant positions being eliminated. Other departments have been eliminating positions when they go vacant for the last 7 or 8 years and will now be laying off large numbers of staff. The police & fire departments are only eliminating some vacant positions they've been carrying over for years.

The scenario I've outlined in my city is playing out in most other local & state jurisdictions as well. The City of Vallejo had to declare bankrupcty in order to get concessions from its police & fire departments. That is nuts! Public safety employees shouldn't get to live in a different economic reality than the rest of us.

So, yes. I am bitter. But with cause.

Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-11-2010 at 02:25 PM..
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:01 PM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,548,775 times
Reputation: 24868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
Well-paid cops are content cops, and content cops are less prone to corruption.
The real corruption here is in what's legal. Most cops & firemen have what's called "binding arbitration" in their contracts. That means they give up their right to stike. But it also means if they don't like their union contract, they can take it to an arbitrator. The arbitrator almost always decides in their favor, so most jurisdictions give them what they want, because they know arbitration is a time consuming and expensive process and that they'll likely lose anyway. It's a completely rigged system.

Even jurisdictions that don't have binding arbitration have to compete with other jurisdictions that do, so they still often end up paying the same bloated salaries & benefits to get decent cops/firemen.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:17 PM
 
26,148 posts, read 28,548,775 times
Reputation: 24868
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle7 View Post
There are alot of dangerous jobs in this world. Many cops think they are james bond when in reality they are more like barney fife on mayberry rfd. I believe the avg salary should be 50k yr plus benefits. A chp cadet should make 2k month plus benefits, room & board & meals, etc. But this is ca after all so all public workers get paid the best in the nation.
2K is too skimpy to start. 50K might be a more reasonable starting salary outside the highest cost areas. I don't begrudge them decent salaries & benefits. But 84K and unheard of benefits for a rookie cop is too much (which is what it is where I live), even if it is a very high cost area.

One of the big problems with police, fire & other public safety employees is the "pension spiking" they're allowed to get away with. This happens when they work scads of overtime so they can get more pay and better pension benefits. Police, firemen, & prison guards get lots of opportunities for OT. Most other public employees don't get the opportunity for any kind of overtime. And even when they do, their pensions are based on base salary only. That's how it should be for public safety as well. Pensions should be based on base salary only and should not include OT.

Collecting a full pension, often based on scads of overtime starting as early at age 50, is simply not reasonable in this day and age when people are living to age 80 or longer. If they want to change into some other line of work, fine....give them 2 years' worth of salary in stipends to go back to school and retrain for new professions if they've been on the force for 20 years or more. That would still be a lot more generous than what the rest of us get when we need to change careers
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:50 PM
 
26,591 posts, read 52,361,982 times
Reputation: 20438
Two quick points...

Today's Oakland Tribune ran a story that local law enforcement no longer recruits... the recruiter positions were eliminated in the budget cuts... the good news is the academy in Alameda County is flooded with applicants... almost too many to process... the average academy grad went from 23 years of age a few years ago to over 29 now... and many are paying their own way in the hopes of getting picked-up at graduation.

When asked... the number one reason was a combination of job pay, benefits and employment security. So clearly, the current package is more than enough to entice new applicants... many with Bachelor and even Master's degrees.

Second... A retired Police Officer family friend privately said he was nothing more than a glorified cab driver with a gun... In 34 years on the job, he never drew his service revolver... not even once... yes, he still carried his department issued revolver.

Most of his time was spent ferrying prisoners to county jail...

Additional Comment... if you truly want to talk about dangerous jobs that pay minimum wage... how about the night cashiers at a 24 hour service station... my brother and everyone that worked that job had all been robbed at gun point... after the second time when the robber fired several shots a point blank range... with only the security glass to save him... my brother quit. One more shot would have penetrated... the glass will not stop multiple high power bullets at point blank at the same spot...

There are plenty of dangerous professions... when my engaged Uncle died in the line of Duty... his only benefit was a department 10k life insurance policy...

Today's Police Officers can rest easy know their family will be provider for, their children can attend college tuition free... should the worst happen and know they will be memorized... the same is not true for those in our military.
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