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Old 05-01-2010, 10:43 AM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,792,012 times
Reputation: 1720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
I can't think of any nation that has been a world power or even a minor power that has not been guilty of the above statement, have you? China? Russia? even Morocco?
The Spanish-American War was the emergence of the US as a world power. In the final analysis, two countries resulted from being taken from Spain's political power: Cuba and the Philippines. You cite one, why not cite the other? "In 1916 the United States granted the Philippines autonomy and promised eventual self-government, which came in 1934, and eventual independence in 1946."
McKinley embodied Manifest Destiny outside the limits of North America, yet for some reason, autonomy was granted to the Philippines and more immediately with the Teller Amendment for Cuba.
But, this is the rationale you use for why a nation's borders should not be respected? I guess your argument, to be fair, goes like this: Any country that has taken land should not have their own sovereignty respected? Then, you should equally disrespect the sovereignty of any nation on this planet because you won't find a one that has not "taken land". To the credit of the U.S., debate on the right or wrong of annexation has always taken place at the highest political levels. You wouldn't find much of that in China today.
How do Tibetan independence rallies fare there?
Do you really think the Philippines was granted independence by the US out of the benevolence of the US? LOL..... I know this topic is way out of your league and beyond the scope of this thread, but let me just educate you on this: Philippine independence was granted because it was to the advantage of the US to do so. Political independence enabled the US to rid its hands of the expensive problem of post World War 2 reconstruction of the Philippines - a war that the Philippines may have possibly avoided had it not been a colony of the US.

Granting independence to the Philippines was a win for US business interests. They managed to impose the Bell Trade Act on the country. This law gave the US certain advantages when trading in the Philippines. It allowed for a monopoly of the principal Philippine products that favored American business interests established before World War II, which obstructed the development of new Filipino enterprise. This meant that US goods could be imported into the Philippines free of all restrictions, while exports from the Philippines remained subject to various restrictions. Not only that, but the main Filipino goods could not be exported to a country other than the US, despite the fact that other nations may have been willing to pay more. The Bell Trade Act essentially made the Philippines economically dependent on the US.

For 50 years, the US also maintained extensive military bases in the Philippines (Clark air base and Subic naval base), which the Americans used as their launching pads for their interventions in Asia (i.e. the Vietnam war, the overthrow of Sukarno in Indonesia, the overthrow of Sihanouk in Cambodia, etc).

While Philippine political independence was a good thing on the surface, the caveat here is that is was more for show. The US managed to control the country by more covert means (eg the CIA rigging elections to favor pro-American candidates, helping the dictator Ferdinand Marcos install himself as totalitarian ruler etc).

The US repeatedly violates the sovereignty of other nations. So for you to complain that "illegal aliens" violate US sovereignty by crossing the border to go to the land that their ancestors once lived in and which was grabbed by the United States is laughable.

Let's call this Arizona law for what it is: it is a blatant attempt by white people to protect themselves from being outnumbered by non-whites. The fear must be that being outnumbered will result in a loss of political power and all the perks and entitlements that come with it. The demographic trends don't favor white people in this country. The fastest growing demographic groups (i.e. Hispanics and Asians) will be calling the shots in this country in the next 40 years. Before that happens, I suggest you do everything you can to deny these "inferior races" the beachhead that they are establishing in this country.

 
Old 05-01-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,379 posts, read 13,314,088 times
Reputation: 11697
All white people think the same. All white people are racist. The US is all about grabbing land and has never done anything right in its entire history. OK, I got it. Now I'm as educated as you. Thank you.
I was way out of my league until I received your instruction.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,213,880 times
Reputation: 1802
Anti-Arizona rallies and marches occurring across the U.S. today but probably not on the scale of May Day events in California. Even AriZona tea has put out a public statement making sure customers know that the product is made in New York. I suppose there are counter-demonstrations but I haven't read about any yet.

Do you think Arizona will cave under the pressure? It took Arizona loosing the 1993 Super Bowl to force the state in recognizing Martin Luther King day. There is a strain of racism in Arizona uncharacteristic of Western states!
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:23 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,792,012 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
All white people think the same. All white people are racist. The US is all about grabbing land and has never done anything right in its entire history. OK, I got it. Now I'm as educated as you. Thank you.
I was way out of my league until I received your instruction.
Wrong. I'm white (Irish Catholic family, though I'm an atheist myself), grew up in LA, married an Asian girl. I'm not racist. Some whites are better than others, I guess.

Frankly, given my circumstances, I have evaluated both sides of the issue. Studied the history of the United States, especially on how it has treated people of color. I'm solidly on the pro-immigration camp. I would even call myself an "open borders" guy. Deal with it.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,379 posts, read 13,314,088 times
Reputation: 11697
You're white ergo you're racist. Deal with it....Unless you care to modify what you've written on this thread.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:42 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,792,012 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snort View Post
You're white ergo you're racist. Deal with it....Unless you care to modify what you've written on this thread.
Modify what? Facts are facts. You have not refuted anything that I've said about the behavior of the United States and its white dominant culture.

Why are white people afraid of immigrants (legal or illegal)? It's because white people are afraid of losing their numerical superiority, which means losing political power. Whites are already the minority in CA. That's why they flee CA (and badmouth the state on this forum). Losing power hurts.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 6,345,107 times
Reputation: 2356
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
Anti-Arizona rallies and marches occurring across the U.S. today but probably not on the scale of May Day events in California. Even AriZona tea has put out a public statement making sure customers know that the product is made in New York. I suppose there are counter-demonstrations but I haven't read about any yet.

Do you think Arizona will cave under the pressure? It took Arizona loosing the 1993 Super Bowl to force the state in recognizing Martin Luther King day. There is a strain of racism in Arizona uncharacteristic of Western states!
Let's wait and see what happens on the economic level. This could signal an even harder recovery period out of this immediate economic period, but it could also trigger massive economic support from those who support SB1070 (even if it doesn't pass the courts).

Just remember, Arizona (especially Phoenix) is in a lot of ways, an extension of the Inland Empire and Orange County into another Western state. A lot of the time, its EXACTLY the same people who voted for Proposition 187 here in 1996. Jan Brewer herself is from Hollywood, CA (source Jan Brewer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Many of Arizona's demons are also our demons as well.

An economic boycott of any sort is the last thing that Arizona needs. Their fiscal situation is actually worse than California's! The last thing they need is bad press, discouraging any kind of business or investment in their state.

I guess the good thing is, a lot of that lost investment could come to California. We need the money too
 
Old 05-01-2010, 05:46 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,405,507 times
Reputation: 29064
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Modify what? Facts are facts. You have not refuted anything that I've said about the behavior of the United States and its white dominant culture.

Why are white people afraid of immigrants (legal or illegal)? It's because white people are afraid of losing their numerical superiority, which means losing political power. Whites are already the minority in CA. That's why they flee CA (and badmouth the state on this forum). Losing power hurts.
Just for you!

Born Again American
 
Old 05-01-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,442,914 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
As nutty as CA is it is nowhere near the level of San Francisco. I feel SF is just as bad as AZ when it comes to illegal immigrants except they're just on the opposite side of the issue.I highly doubt a state as big and diverse as CA will officially boycott AZ to the level that SF is. SF is not representative of this state at all, it's a bubble imo.

A lot of Californians probably agree with the law at least somewhat. I personally feel something needs to be done here but I dunno if AZ is a good example. I'm really concerned that it will lead to any hispanic looking person being subjected to checks on their citizenship, which is absolutely BS. I would flip out if some officer actually stopped me for the sole purpose of checking my citizenship just b/c of how I look. It's bad enough I get asked my nationality when I get pulled over and when I say "American" they have this dumbfounded look and ask "What?". So then I just say Mexican like they want, even though that is not my nationality. Next time I'm just saying Asian just to see how the pig reacts.
They actually ask you your Nationality?!!! If I were you, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of saying "mexican". If they have a "look" about that, i would then really get into them. My ancestors put up with too much **** from white ppl for us to not be considered anything but american. Even so, I feel that we need to give this new law a chance to work. The illegals problem has just gotten out of hand espec in so cal and ariz. I am for anything that puts them back into their home country.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,272 posts, read 55,023,526 times
Reputation: 15312
I don't know what the big deal is.

I've lived in several countries where citizens and natural residents are required to have identification on them at all times.

I've been carded in Brazil several times. They do it to everyone. I've presented by Brazilian "Greencard" and went on my merry way-no problem.

My parents immigrated legally to the US in the 1960s. It was an arduous process and they were dirt poor and wanted to come to the US to provide a better life for the families. Except they waited their turn and when it was deemed appropriate to the US govt to allow them entry into the United States, they were granted visas and they came.

I don't see how the people cheating the system by coming in illegally are entitled to do so-even more ridiculous is that their illegal entry into the US is met with glee by some.

Furthermore, I love how the media talks about the immigration problem but rarely call the problem by its correct name. There is no problem with Immigration-the issue is with ILLEGAL Immigration.

And then the kicker is if you believe that we as a nation, should actually have the final say in who comes here-such people are branded racists.

Illegals and their misguided supporters act like being in the United States is a human right?

As if.
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