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Old 04-28-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,282,087 times
Reputation: 1756

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People come here because they get jobs. Period. If I was dirt poor living on the other side of the border I would STILL attempt to come over at the risk of being rounded up and sent back. Why? Because there is a job waiting for me that can potentially pay me much more than I am getting back home. That is the reality. Unless you address that side of the equation this law will do nothing to truly curb the problem. American business as a whole DO NOT want to see the steady supply of cheap labor cut off. That is the reason this issue has never been adequately addressed.

It reminds me of the so-called "war" on drugs. We have spent the last twenty plus years building bigger prisons and locking up dealers and addicts alike. The result? The flow of drugs into this country has INCREASED over that time. Until the demand side of the problem is truly and adequately addressed nothing will change. Same with the illegal immigration issue.

But hey, it scores good political points going into the midterm elections. It is amazing how many people are eating this up. However, in the grand scheme of things it will change very little.

 
Old 04-28-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,412 posts, read 8,204,765 times
Reputation: 1802
Here's an interesting editorial from yesterday's LA Times:

"Arizona leads, sort of . . . The state’s tough new law highlights the need for national reform.

April 27, 2010

Thank you, Arizona.

Despite our strong condemnation of a new law that will likely promote racial profiling of Latinos in your state, we must acknowledge that you have accomplished what many others — including senators, committed activists and a willing president — have failed to achieve. You put immigration back on the national agenda.

The truth is, something had been missing from the latest push for comprehensive immigration reform. It had been a campaign in search of a movement. This lack of emotional traction persisted despite the earnest efforts of advocates who lobbied Congress, pressured President Obama to keep his campaign promise and rallied their troops to Washington. But even when thousands of immigrants and their allies converged on the National Mall in March, the nation paid little heed: The House was voting on healthcare reform that day.

Now that Arizona has made it a crime for immigrants — legal or otherwise — not to carry identification, and now that police are required to ascertain the immigration status of anyone they reasonably suspect is in the state illegally, the nation is awake to the unconscionable extremes states might pursue if there is no federal reform. Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce, who sponsored the legislation, says opponents are overreacting and that the law has safeguards to prevent racial profiling. To fear that will happen, he says, is to lack faith in the police. We have faith that the police will be just as confused as everyone else about whom to suspect of being in the state illegally. Their starting points, almost certainly, will be brown skin, dark hair and accented English.

Over the weekend, on "Meet the Press," Sen. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) said that immediate federal action is necessary. "Before the events get further out of hand, we've got to step up and do the job," he said. And he's right. The United States has made no progress toward a coherent immigration policy in the past few years, but last week Arizona demonstrated that the country isn't just inert, it is actually sliding backward. So if this travesty of a law inspires Congress to act and develop a sensible new policy, we have Arizona to thank".

Copyright © 2010, The Los Angeles Times
 
Old 04-28-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,691 posts, read 26,668,043 times
Reputation: 20267
On MSNBC one of the reporters stated that with this law, Arizona is saying it is a crime to be an Illegal Immigrant. Hello MSNBC, Guess what it is a crime. If it was not a crime then the borders would be open and the Illegals would not be paying Coyotes and others to try and find a way to get across the border. If it was not a crime we would tell all the Border Patroll agents to go home because we don't need them anymore.

The fact is that it is a crime to cross the border illegally and you can call then what you want but they are breaking the law and someone needs to do something about it. Undocumented workers? Please. Lets call it what it is. Maybe the President can think about doing his job and protect our borders. The Constitution states that he is responxible for protecting our borders but he seems to not get it.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Oregon
1,458 posts, read 5,252,552 times
Reputation: 1410
Today it was a surprise to get an answer immediately at the San Francisco mayor's office, in a matter of a few rings. The intern said they would pass along my message.

In light of the news about San Franscisco trying to escalate a boycott aimed at Arizona, I canceled my planned vacation to San Francisco. It was to be an extension of my routine drive to the north redwoods. Certainly there is a lot to do in SF, but the mayor and associates have left a bad taste for the moment.

It will be interesting to see if SF citizens support their mayor. And whether or not they can even get a voice heard by the city government.

Would like to have deposited more of my vacation money in your state. But it will just be smaller spending near Hiouchi and Orick for the near future.

 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: California
30,513 posts, read 33,335,622 times
Reputation: 25987
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Yet they don't ask white people that now do they? Have you ever had your nationality questioned when getting a speeding ticket? Or has anyone out there that is not a minority? And if you have and have responded American, has the officer repeated the question again b/c he seemed to be dumbfounded that a brown person would answer American?
They ask EVERYONE for ID. You don't get pulled over or stopped by the police without them asking for ID. If you don't have ID you are asking for trouble no matter what nationality you are.

While I can see why people are concerned about abuse I'm not terribly worried. Yet.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,422 posts, read 25,317,722 times
Reputation: 8857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
They ask EVERYONE for ID. You don't get pulled over or stopped by the police without them askig for ID. If you don't have ID you are asking for trouble no matter what nationality you are.
No kidding, did I mention ID once in my post? I said NATIONALITY, not my fricken ID. Of course when I get pulled over DRIVING they will ask for my license. I don't have a problem with that since they obviously need proof one has a license to drive. I'm talking about having my nationality questioned. Get it now?

Do you get asked your nationality when getting a speeding ticket? B/c my white friends friends in my car when I got a ticket were shocked that the officer asked me that b/c they've never been asked that and it's happened more than once to me.

Quote:
While I can see why people are concerned about abuse I'm not terribly worried. Yet.
You're white, of course you're not worried since the law is not aimed at you and doesn't affect you. Typical.......
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: California
30,513 posts, read 33,335,622 times
Reputation: 25987
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
No kidding, did I mention ID once in my post? I said NATIONALITY, not my fricken ID. Of course when I get pulled over DRIVING they will ask for my license. I don't have a problem with that since they obviously need proof one has a license to drive. I'm talking about having my nationality questioned. Get it now?

Do you get asked your nationality when getting a speeding ticket? B/c my white friends friends in my car when I got a ticket were shocked that the officer asked me that b/c they've never been asked that and it's happened more than once to me.
Well, if nobody asks nobody will know. And that's one of the reason we are in this mess isn't it? It's not a CRIME to ask your nationality. It may not be common but the "illegal" part of "illegal immigrant" certainly warrents the question. I'm not saying haul people off to jail who aren't citizens, but in the course of whatever legal stuff is going on anyway....yes, I do think that is the best point to find out who is who.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:36 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,422 posts, read 25,317,722 times
Reputation: 8857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Well, if nobody asks nobody will know. And that's one of the reason we are in this mess isn't it? It's not a CRIME to ask your nationality. It may not be common but the "illegal" part of "illegal immigrant" certainly warrents the question. I'm not saying haul people off to jail who aren't citizens, but in the course of whatever legal stuff is going on anyway....yes, I do think that is the best point to find out who is who.
No that isn't the reason we are in this mess, not securing our borders and other reasons are why.

What the hell are you even talking about? Jailing people? I am talking about how I already have CHP and police questioning me on what my nationality is even though they don't do that to white people. And when I respond with the correct asnwer, which is AMERICAN, I get this dumbfounded look and they repeat the question. B/c no brown person could possibly be American right? Have YOU ever had this happen to you on multiple occasions? If not then you have no right to speak on what it's like or that you think their is no problem with it.

Why the should I have my nationality questioned when plenty of other people don't? Just b/c I am brown that gives someone the right to question my citizenship and nationality? My family has been in this country for generations and are more American that many white people out there. If you're going to ask then ask EVERYONE, not just people that "look" like an illegal b/c that will lead to racial profiling.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,379 posts, read 13,300,335 times
Reputation: 11697
For those who read Spanish, it's an interesting comparison to look at what the Mexican laws are against illegal immigration: Migración Internacional. Español

Go to Capitulo VIII and use Babelfish or something similar.

I've got a few lefty ideas, to be sure, but this ain't one of them.
 
Old 04-28-2010, 05:55 PM
 
6,219 posts, read 6,643,731 times
Reputation: 5803
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
No that isn't the reason we are in this mess, not securing our borders and other reasons are why.

What the hell are you even talking about? Jailing people? I am talking about how I already have CHP and police questioning me on what my nationality is even though they don't do that to white people. And when I respond with the correct asnwer, which is AMERICAN, I get this dumbfounded look and they repeat the question. B/c no brown person could possibly be American right? Have YOU ever had this happen to you on multiple occasions? If not then you have no right to speak on what it's like or that you think their is no problem with it.

Why the should I have my nationality questioned when plenty of other people don't? Just b/c I am brown that gives someone the right to question my citizenship and nationality? My family has been in this country for generations and are more American that many white people out there. If you're going to ask then ask EVERYONE, not just people that "look" like an illegal b/c that will lead to racial profiling.
Then you must really be upset with the Feds and Mexico for allowing this problem to escalate to this point. Maybe try giving Obama and the Pres of Mexico a call and tell them to get their act together.
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