U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-16-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Business ethics is an oxymoron.
1,880 posts, read 2,272,088 times
Reputation: 3955

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle7 View Post
If those bums in sacramento could impose a breathing tax they surely would. There approval rating is a all time low of 13%.
True but that won't stop most if not all of them from getting re-elected.

As much pork, abuse, and waste as there is (totally agree with all of that), the voters aren't without blame in this mess inasmuch as pretty everyone seems to agree on one thing: "Yes. Sacramento is a basket case. But it's all of the other politicians screwing things up. Never the one I voted for".



The first step towards cleaning this up is to agree that everyone now up there needs to go. Every single last one, from the governer down to the little clerk at the reception desk. Straight across the board, no person is safe. But getting the voters to agree on anything-including what day of the week it is-let alone a wholesale housecleaning in Sacramento?

That's an even bigger pipe dream than HSR.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-16-2010, 08:04 PM
 
1,465 posts, read 4,555,232 times
Reputation: 852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
That's because the tax dollars aren't being spent right regardless... thanks to laws like Prop 13 and others, merely raising taxes won't raise the quality of public services. So basically what I'm saying is... repeal laws like Prop 13 and then raise taxes.
What union are you a member? Maybe I can clarify their position for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2010, 08:44 PM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,267,707 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des-Lab View Post
True but that won't stop most if not all of them from getting re-elected.

As much pork, abuse, and waste as there is (totally agree with all of that), the voters aren't without blame in this mess inasmuch as pretty everyone seems to agree on one thing: "Yes. Sacramento is a basket case. But it's all of the other politicians screwing things up. Never the one I voted for".



The first step towards cleaning this up is to agree that everyone now up there needs to go. Every single last one, from the governer down to the little clerk at the reception desk. Straight across the board, no person is safe. But getting the voters to agree on anything-including what day of the week it is-let alone a wholesale housecleaning in Sacramento?

That's an even bigger pipe dream than HSR.
I would agree... but, the politicians I vote for never get elected

I supported Tom McClintock based on his assessment of what needed to be done to avoid the train wreck of California finances... looks like Tom hit the nail on the head... being the bearer of bad news doomed his run for Governor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-16-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,466,592 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I would agree... but, the politicians I vote for never get elected

I supported Tom McClintock based on his assessment of what needed to be done to avoid the train wreck of California finances... looks like Tom hit the nail on the head... being the bearer of bad news doomed his run for Governor.
I would have voted for him too except that he was just too dang anti-gay. Why can't there ever be a candidate that's no so harsh on gay folk, but fiscally responsible at the same time?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 8,698,423 times
Reputation: 8885
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Income taxes are typically more volatile than property taxes. In recessions - personal income falls, and businesses change from profitable to unprofitable. Once a business is unprofitable it ceases to have income and will pay no income taxes.

Prop 13 does not allow property taxes to truly track the market because of its builtin 2% annual cap. Any home that hasn't been sold in a while is probably generating grossly low amounts of property tax (based on comparison to market value - not the homeowner's perception of tax amount).

In this rececssion, California has suffered far more from its dependence on income taxes. High unemployment = low wages = low income taxes.
Unemployment = no state income tax being collected from the unemployed. That is where California could learn from Texas govt. Texas does not rely on a personal state income tax...Texas does not impose a personal state income tax on the residents. And the day that the Texas govt. tried to impose one would result in a Texas revolution for sure!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,442,125 times
Reputation: 4321
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Texas does not rely on a personal state income tax...Texas does not impose a personal state income tax on the residents. And the day that the Texas govt. tried to impose one would result in a Texas revolution for sure!
The total tax burden in Texas is not much different than California, what Texas does not collect in income tax they make up in property and business taxes. Texas has a gross revenue tax on business (very small businesses avoid it) and this sort of tax can create an even greater tax burden on some companies than an income or corporate tax.

I think property taxes are much better than income taxes, but its a mistake to think that Texans are paying dramatically less in taxes because the state lacks an income tax. If I was to move to Texas today I'd actually be paying more in tax than I do in California.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 8,698,423 times
Reputation: 8885
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The total tax burden in Texas is not much different than California, what Texas does not collect in income tax they make up in property and business taxes. Texas has a gross revenue tax on business (very small businesses avoid it) and this sort of tax can create an even greater tax burden on some companies than an income or corporate tax.

I think property taxes are much better than income taxes, but its a mistake to think that Texans are paying dramatically less in taxes because the state lacks an income tax. If I was to move to Texas today I'd actually be paying more in tax than I do in California.
That may be true for you. However not everyone in Texas owns a house and is paying 3% property taxes and the majority do not own businesses. Texas is not bankrupt. I just relocated here and I am still trying to figure out how on earth California got itself into this position. I pay more taxes here then I did in Texas but I do make a much larger salary and I come out better. However the cost of living is higher then in Texas. What we pay here in vehicle registration is outrageous compared to Texas and I can go on and on but what I don't understand is why this state is bankrupt with all of the money it collects from the residents!

I love California but I have to admit the situation here is scary. I hope California can pull out of this situation and that the voters can make that happen.

Last edited by TVC15; 05-17-2010 at 12:51 AM.. Reason: added more
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:46 AM
 
26,589 posts, read 52,267,707 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
The total tax burden in Texas is not much different than California, what Texas does not collect in income tax they make up in property and business taxes. Texas has a gross revenue tax on business (very small businesses avoid it) and this sort of tax can create an even greater tax burden on some companies than an income or corporate tax.

I think property taxes are much better than income taxes, but its a mistake to think that Texans are paying dramatically less in taxes because the state lacks an income tax. If I was to move to Texas today I'd actually be paying more in tax than I do in California.
California may not have a Gross Revenue Tax... but, my city does.

Oakland Gross Revenue Tax tops out at $24 per $1000.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,442,125 times
Reputation: 4321
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
That may be true for you. However not everyone in Texas owns a house and is paying 3% property taxes.
Unless you are homeless you are paying property taxes in Texas. If you are renting than you are paying it indirectly via your landlord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Texas is not bankrupt. I just relocated here and I am still trying to figure out how on earth California got itself into this position.
Firstly, California is not bankrupt (states can't even go bankrupt in principle). Secondly Texas also has a budget deficit, its approximately $3.3 billion.

California has a number of issues, but Texas' population is growing faster than California and this makes dealing with budgetary problems much easier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I hope California can pull out of this situation and that the voters can make that happen.
The voters are the ones that created the problem so that is rather unlikely. Will the voters vote to remove Prop 13? No. Will the voters vote to match spending increases to tax increases? No. Will the voters vote to dismantle the public unions? No. The voters will do nothing to fix the state's problems, it will take a motivated and powerful leader.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 8,698,423 times
Reputation: 8885
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Unless you are homeless you are paying property taxes in Texas. If you are renting than you are paying it indirectly via your landlord.


Firstly, California is not bankrupt (states can't even go bankrupt in principle). Secondly Texas also has a budget deficit, its approximately $3.3 billion.

California has a number of issues, but Texas' population is growing faster than California and this makes dealing with budgetary problems much easier.



The voters are the ones that created the problem so that is rather unlikely. Will the voters vote to remove Prop 13? No. Will the voters vote to match spending increases to tax increases? No. Will the voters vote to dismantle the public unions? No. The voters will do nothing to fix the state's problems, it will take a motivated and powerful leader.
Sorry and I stand corrected for uning the word "bankrupt". Texas is quickly working on the buget deficit. Also people who rent are indirectly paying but I would doubt it is even 3%.

I think that is sad to hear what it will take to turn California around. Union is another interesting thing. I grew up with the conditioning of how Unions hurt business. I come here and I am forced to join a Union. I don't understand how this can be constitutional. Being forced to join or not be employed at the company seems very oppressive to me. I have to pay 1.64 % of my gross income to be a member of this Union! I had much better benefits in Texas than I do here and without a Union.

My point again is that California hopefully can learn something from the way Texas manages govt. spending. It's not perfect but it will never fall to the level that California has...or at least I can't imagine that happening.

Last edited by TVC15; 05-17-2010 at 01:18 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top