Question for Ca. or other conservatives (Los Angeles, San Francisco: layoffs, school, college)

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by californio sur

But conservatives ala Republicans are "anti-gay" They oppose gay marriage & any rights for gays. They use the issue to divide the electorate during close elections. They listen to and applaud people like Ann Coulter when she calls Democrats "f*****s." On the issue of gays, conservatives are bigots and deserve every bit of criticism\ disgust.

In your 18 years of life so far you rely far too much on what you read or consume from the mass media.

If you actually met and spoke to many conservates you would find that they don't all conform to what you just wrote.

Many conservatives adhere to a more pure view of "small goverment" - and that extends to social issues too. They want the government to have the smallest reasonable role in people's lives. That means no interference in marriage, religion, etc.

Ann Coulter has a big mouth but is otherwise relatively powerless. Bill Maher is an example of another media idiot. Howard Dean is close to that status. The liberal closest to Ann Coutler could be Keith Olberman. I though Al Franken was too - but somehow he got elected to office.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Now, now, Gentoo. It's the human condition. Broad brush strokes cover more ground more quickly, dontcha know.

Just a product of the horrific polarization infecting our society.

ok, ok...I cannot argue with that point

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Gentoo, doesn't this go both ways? I have read on this board and the political board conservatives called all kinds of things, from low income, uneducated, hateful, narrow minded, racists, bigots and everything inbetween. Icould say the same about liberals..

Some people seem to think name calling will make points, I am one that thinks name calling of generalizing make people look inmature.

Nita

It can. However asking me that question is going to get you a bias answer I suppose. I see a lot more liberal bashing than the other way around. I do see what you're saying though nita and I know when I've said things like this myself, it was more in reaction to what I had been reading. For example this thread was in reaction to the other one about Ca. liberals...like really? They needed to start a whole thread about California liberals? That's like me going into the Oklahoma forum and talking about how ass backward I think they are for being conservative or something. I'll take it one step further and say that I think this liberal bashing plays a large part in the trolling in certain city forums as it seems to be predominantly the liberal cities that get this the most, (Seattle, San Francisco, Oakland and Los Angeles). Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Phil306

Californio Sur,

That was the original poster's point. You ca't always say "Joe Smith must believe this, because he is a conservative or liberal." Not ALL conservatives are against gay marriage. I am, however, I am no where near a bigot. My best friend is a lesbian. And guess what? She is against gay marriage too. So, you see, the issue isn't so black and white as you are trying to paint it.

Yes, pretty much like this. As liberal as I am, I have conservative friends too. Hell my girlfriend is conservative. Those can be party times let me tell you lol

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by mateo45

No offense intended, but seems to me that this a large part of the problem, that conservatives too often start equivocating and "tap-dancing" around their positions whenever they're asked to back 'em up, especially whenever they're obviously the "uncomfortable" or "controversial" ones.

"I'm not a bigot, or against gays or gay marriage... I just don't want them to get married (or have the same rights as everyone else, & BTW, it's evil!)."

"I'm not a rightwing extremist.... I just think our President is a Socialist America-hating Commie (if not the Anti-Christ, and BTW, don't you dare disagree with me or I'll question your patriotism)!"

"I believe in the Constitution and Separation of Church and State.... but this country was founded by Christians, and polls show 80% of the population are Christian (and therefore....)!"

"I'm a libertarian and want the guvmint to stay the heck out of my life.... but dammit, we need to do something (anything!) to stop killing babies (outlaw abortions), stop "illegals" (start carrying your "papers"), and stop "terrorists (hello "torture", and goodbye "Constitution").

There's lot's more like that, but you get the drift. Disagreement is one thing, but as CaliSur says, you can't have it both ways and expect to have any credibility (let alone respect).

Now this is the voice of reason

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by mateo45

No offense intended, but seems to me that this a large part of the problem, that conservatives too often start equivocating and "tap-dancing" around their positions whenever they're asked to back 'em up, especially whenever they're obviously the "uncomfortable" or "controversial" ones.

"I'm not a bigot, or against gays or gay marriage... I just don't want them to get married (or have the same rights as everyone else, & BTW, it's evil!)."

"I'm not a rightwing extremist.... I just think our President is a Socialist America-hating Commie (if not the Anti-Christ, and BTW, don't you dare disagree with me or I'll question your patriotism)!"

"I believe in the Constitution and Separation of Church and State.... but this country was founded by Christians, and polls show 80% of the population are Christian (and therefore....)!"

"I'm a libertarian and want the guvmint to stay the heck out of my life.... but dammit, we need to do something (anything!) to stop killing babies (outlaw abortions), stop "illegals" (start carrying your "papers"), and stop "terrorists (hello "torture", and goodbye "Constitution").

There's lot's more like that, but you get the drift. Disagreement is one thing, but as CaliSur says, you can't have it both ways and expect to have any credibility (let alone respect).

I think you are missing the part about painting any group with broad brushes of stereotypes because you hold different views on certain political issues. These are all seperate hot botton issues which you obviously feel strongly about. But not all conservatives or liberals think this same way. And in your own words you asked me once, since when is my way or the highway anyway to approach people, including those you disagree with? If you can't have discussions with ppl you disagree without calling them names or demonstrate common respect what good is that? It goes both ways. Why do you think we have polarity in Gov't, sometimes in the same party?

Let me say while I disgree you with on many things I respect your right to your own opinion and you as well as you as an individual. But to have rational, reasonable discussions that common respect has to go both ways. Even when you get excited about certain issues (gay rights, religion, etc...). Otherwise these threads devolve into junior high name calling and imaturity. Of course it started as a reaction to the other thread. But what value does that serve? Maybe to see who can get the best canned digs in before it gets locked? C'mon.

Derek

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

I think you are missing the part about painting any group with broad brushes of stereotypes because you hold different views on certain political issues. These are all seperate hot botton issues which you obviously feel strongly about. But not all conservatives or liberals think this same way. And in your own words you asked me once, since when is my way or the highway anyway to approach people, including those you disagree with? If you can't have discussions with ppl you disagree without calling them names or demonstrate common respect what good is that? It goes both ways. Why do you think we have polarity in Gov't, sometimes in the same party?

Let me say while I disgree you with on many things I respect your right to your own opinion and you as well as you as an individual. But to have rational, reasonable discussions that common respect has to go both ways. Even when you get excited about certain issues (gay rights, religion, etc...). Otherwise these threads devolve into junior high name calling and imaturity. Of course it started as a reaction to the other thread. But what value does that serve? Maybe to see who can get the best canned digs in before it gets locked? C'mon.

Derek

That's all!

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

I think you are missing the part about painting any group with broad brushes of stereotypes because you hold different views on certain political issues. These are all seperate hot botton issues which you obviously feel strongly about. But not all conservatives or liberals think this same way. And in your own words you asked me once, since when is my way or the highway anyway to approach people, including those you disagree with? If you can't have discussions with ppl you disagree without calling them names or demonstrate common respect what good is that? It goes both ways. Why do you think we have polarity in Gov't, sometimes in the same party?

Let me say while I disgree you with on many things I respect your right to your own opinion and you as well as you as an individual. But to have rational, reasonable discussions that common respect has to go both ways. Even when you get excited about certain issues (gay rights, religion, etc...). Otherwise these threads devolve into junior high name calling and imaturity. Of course it started as a reaction to the other thread. But what value does that serve? Maybe to see who can get the best canned digs in before it gets locked? C'mon.

Derek

What's "my way or the highway" got to do with this? Honestly, I don't care if we disagree, but if you wanna discuss it, all I ask is that you at least show some semblance of honesty or integrity about your positions (or even make sense!).

For example, "I'm not a bigot... but I think they shouldn't have the same rights, and that being gay is morally wrong!" Huh!??

bigot n. "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by mateo45

What's "my way or the highway" got to do with this? Honestly, I don't care if we disagree, but if you wanna discuss it, all I ask is that you at least show some semblance of honesty or integrity about your positions (or even make sense!).

For example, "I'm not a bigot... but I think they shouldn't have the same rights, and that being gay is morally wrong!" Huh!??

bigot n. "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

There's a huge difference between intolerance and disagreement. The subtly escapes some!

[mateo45]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

There's a huge difference between intolerance and disagreement. The subtly escapes some!

Perhaps we differ, but to me, "disagreement" is just my opinion, while "intolerance" is when I actually try to enforce it.

For example, presumably you support Prop. 8, the anti-gay marriage proposition. If so, how do you reconcile putting your moral "disagreement" into law and actually enforcing your "prejudices"?

I hope you can explain it to us, and hopefully with the same respect (and honesty) you wish to receive.