School me on all things aluminum travel trailers. (standard, mileage, motor)

[cab591]

I'm considering buying a camper in a year or two, for recreational use. I'm looking into small travel trailers (has to comfortably sleep at least 2), with bathroom facilities ("wetzone" showers are fine). I would love a toy hauler, or one with a small platform, to load bikes / motorcycles / etc. The potential tow vehicle is small, weighing in at about 3000 lbs. In Europe, the vehicle is rated to tow nearly 4000 lbs! Obviously, trailer brakes are a must when loads become that heavy. Ideally, the trailer with gear would weigh in under a ton.

Most trailers I've seen have at least three "weight" ratings. Gross weight, dry weight, and tongue weight. I have a vague understanding of these. Dry weight is the weight of the trailer, with nothing else (no water in tanks, no propane, etc). I'm under the assumption that "gross weight" is the max weight, fully loaded. Tongue weight is obviously the weight of the trailer on the hitch. I've heard that tongue weight is roughly 10-15% of the weight of the trailer, but wouldn't it be dependent on how the trailer is loaded?

After some research, I've come across the "LivinLite" brand. This company specializes in all-aluminum ultra lightweight travel trailers. Has anybody purchased one of these before? If so, would you recommend one? Any suggestions of other all-aluminum brands, or other ultra light manufacturers?



Any advice would be appreciated.

[StealthRabbit]

You definitely want aluminum super structure and single sheet siding/ roof, if you are doing LOTS of miles or ANY off-road. Wood / particle board / aluminum siding / windows falls apart with heavy use and cyclical wear (bouncing).

[cab591]

I would hope I'm not doing mileage off-road. But, a rough road in a campground, or a gravel entrance road, would do the same over time.

My towing experience is limited to boats and utility trailers behind large trucks or SUVs. For the purposes of this topic, however, the towing vehicle in question is a BMW 3 series (E30 -- basically mid-80's to early 90's) wagon. It's got a 6 cylinder engine, putting out about 230 hp, and 220 ft-lbs of torque. The vehicle is rear wheel drive, with a 5 speed manual transmission, and weighs 2,900 lbs.

I've seen them used for towing in Europe, and those are the ones with the small 4 cylinder engines (both petrol and diesel). So before anyone jumps in with the "buy a truck/SUV" comment, I know this vehicle is capable of towing small loads, and don't want to have the expenses of a dedicated tow vehicle. This is why I'm looking at ultralights.

From what I've read, I should keep tongue weight under about 150 lbs, unless the trailer is equipped with trailer brakes. Obviously, I don't want the loaded trailer to weigh more than the car, hence the 2000 pound weight limit I've given myself. I fully believe, loaded correctly, the car can tow a 2000 pound trailer (equipped with trailer brakes).

[rtandc]

People in Europe do have a different mindset then us in the USA when it comes to towing, me I would not even think about towing anything with that vehicle let alone a TT but that issue is on you to decide...
Now on to the trailer, Dont want to sound mean but you have asked so I will give you my opinion....I have looked at many of these types of trailers and I am not impressed at all. They are nothing more than an enclosed cargo trailer with an AC unit placed on the roof. The skin is very thin and every little rock, piece of hail etc will cause damage. They do not hold any type of constancy when it comes to inside temperatures as the aluminum skin absorbs the heat of the sun in the summer time making it so hot inside 3-4 AC units could not keep up let alone the small AC unit that comes with the trailer….When it comes to heating the trailer, well good luck as 99% of these trailers I have seen do not come with any type of heating system. Again these are nothing more than a cargo trailer…many do not even offer any type of windows, screens for the doors etc…..
There is no separation between the cargo area and the sleeping area, as it is one in the same. If you don’t mind sleeping in a area that smells like gas/oil etc from the motorcycles or ATV’s that you have carried then this is the trailer for you.

[cab591]

Hmmm... fair points. What about travel trailers with a platform up front, to keep the toys on?

Jayco makes the Baja trailer. I don't think I want a pop-top camper though (I think of them as glorified tents, and don't think they would serve my purpose well), but I'm sure there's other manufacturers that do this. The Little Guy Sport also comes to mind, but I don't want to sleep in an egg.

On your points about heating / cooling: would styrofoam insulation help? I live in Arizona, so AC is one thing that would HAVE to work -- and houses here are made out of styrofoam to keep them cool. I would think a well-built aluminum TT would have styrofoam insulation between the beams to keep it cooler. I'll accept your point on the rigidity of aluminum skin vs other materials -- an aluminum TT would definitely run the risk of getting dents.

[rtandc]

Before we even get into a discussion about how a RV is built and what is best I still can’t get past your tow vehicle and you finding anything light enough to use for both camping and it being a toy hauler at the same time.

If you plan on using your BMW, that vehicle has a max tow weight of maybe 2000 pounds built to USA standards. Using the 85% rule that only gives you 1700 pounds of total towing capacity, That 1700 pounds has to include the weight of the camper (when loaded) and all of your gear plus the MC's or whatever toys you want to carry plus the weight of you and your passengers inside the car.

Even looking at the Livin lite web site you posted in your first post the smallest cargo/camping trailer they have is a 5X10 and the weight on it is 1200 pounds and that is DRY WEIGHT(without any options like AC, bed, cooler,bath or anything, that is the weight of just the empty shell.) So tht gives you 500 pounds to play with.......Now add to that the total weight of you, your wife, kids, dog etc that will be traveling with you and that puts you most likely over the limit even before you toss in the first sleeping bag or put the first can of beer in the cooler (or the cooler)let alone adding any of the options available on the camper or trying to carry any M/C’s or other toys with you…Sorry but I just don’t know of anything out in the market place that is going to offer you want you want, unless you first go to a much larger tow vehicle.

[cab591]

The BMW is a European import, with an engine swap. The engine, in a similar model, is rated at 4000 lbs towing capacity. I'm giving it 2000 to be on the safe side, though it could probably pull closer to 3000 (assuming the trailer is equipped with brakes). I'm a single male, so hauling family isn't a concern, just a friend or two on occasion. I was hoping to find something that could carry a motorcycle, though, dry weight of about 300 lbs. And dry weight is the price of just the trailer? It seemed to me like the weight listed would be including kitchens and AC units.

LivinLite has a picture of a mini cooper towing one of their smaller travel trailers right on their main page. Obviously, it has a certain promotional appeal, but they wouldn't risk false advertising if that weren't possible. If a mini cooper can tow one of their trailers, the BMW could easily (it's heavier, with nearly twice as much power, and RWD instead of FWD). Digging deeper, they also have pictures of their trailers being hauled by a Kia Rondo, and a Mazda3, both of which have less power, and are FWD. I don't see why the BMW would have any problems, or why I have to own a truck / SUV to tow any sort of load. I've towed a 240sx on a car trailer behind a C4 Corvette before, and have pulled a 20 foot utility trailer loaded with 3 ATVs and a dirtbike with a Nissan Altima (to be fair, only did that once, no faster than 55, on a small stretch of road -- but it did it without complaint).

[rtandc]

Ok let me see if I can help you out here on towing but first I am going to start at the bottom of your last post and work up....yes the ad shows a mini Cooper towing their smallest travel trailer, that TT has a dry weight of 1500 pounds, the mini Cooper also has a tow rating of around 2000 pounds, as does most small to mid size cars made or imported into the USA. Some larger cars and crossovers may bump up the rate to 3-4k depending on the model but we are dealing with your BMW car so we don't even need to go there.

Now again looking at The Livin Lite web page they offer four different models in several different sizes and floor plans. They offer a truck camper an automotive camper (pop up) a camp lite camping trailer and a VRV toy hauler. It was my understanding by reading you post you want a toy hauler so you can carry a M/C so not sure where you are trying to go with "why does a web site shows different cars towing a travel trailer you don't want". The picture I see under the toy hauler is it is being towed by a Hummer H2 that has about an 8K tow rating but again that has nothing to do with your vehicle either so let me move on.....

Towing, again as I stated above most small to mid size cars are all going to have around that 1500-2000 pound tow rating, thats it.......Let me explain why, tow ratings are set based on the complete vehicle which include the engine, tranny, the design of the frame, the drive train, axles, even the size and ratings of the tires and rims.... So in your case changing the engine may give you a little more power but it does very little to change your towing rate as your vehicle is only as strong as it's weakest part...In your case that nay be the tranny or axles or tires, I don't know your vehicle.

But trust me when I say this, I full tine RV and I spend many miles on the road and I have stopped many times to help a fellow RV'er out thats broke down on the side of the road, and most times they are broke down because they are trying to tow something they have no business towing. It's all a game of chance, could your little BMW pull one of those tow haulers, sure it could pull a 31 foot TT most likely put pulling something and towing something safely is two different things.

That is why you see a campground full of monster Ford F350 pick up trucks that get 8-10 miles to the gallon, it's not because everyone wants the biggest baddest truck in the campground it's because they all know that to safely tow they camper that is what is needed in many cases.

Now before I end, a little on trailer weights, yes the dry weight of a trailer is the factory weight before any options are added. There can be a huge weight difference between what the dry weight in an ad or web page shows compared to what the trailer weighs sitting on the RV lot after the factory or dealer options are added.The only true way to know the weight it to have the trailer weighed at a truck scale.

[cab591]

I'm still working on getting my touring, but here's an example of one towing. I've raced this guy at mid-Ohio before, and he tows using this setup all the time. The whole towing rig (trailer and car) weigh about 3,000 lbs, and he doesn't have trouble towing it. A class III hitch was available with the car in the European market, and can be ordered and installed aftermarket. U-Haul's towing glossary tells me a class 3 hitch is good for 5,000 lbs gross trailer weight, and 500 lbs tongue weight. So, if the 6x15 has a GVWR of 4,400 lbs, then surely a class 3 hitch could support it? On their site, as well, they have a 14.5' Travel Trailer (non-Toy Hauler) that weighs 2700 lbs (GVWR). The rear door seems like it would be big enough to pull a single motorcycle through, which would work for my purposes. Would I have any problems towing something that size?

And, to get a general idea, here's a picture of the coupe variant towing a small travel trailer.

[rtandc]

Ok you came on the forum asking advice about what you can tow with your vehicle and I gave you my advice. Take it don't take it that is up to you, but note there are many people that post on this forum that has many years of towing RV's.... I personally have been RVing for 30 plus years and can tell you with great certainly that what you want to do is not only a bad idea but also unsafe, I think you will find that the other posters that add to this post will agree with me.
Do people toss the rule book out the window and tow what they want with what they have..... Yep everyday ....... I call that thinning of the gene pool....they may get away with it 99 times, but that 100th time is out there waiting for them.... When that happens to you I only hope it's only damage to your vehicle and/or trailer and not some innocent person getting hurt or killed because you wanted to play roulette with your vehicle......I am not going to tell anyone it's ok to do something when I know it's unsafe, we can get back to the old statement of if your friend jumps off a bridge, does that mean you are going to do it also?...Because that is where you have gotten to trying to justify why you want to do something..... I've told you what I can..... Good luck in whatever you decide....