How is the educated, non-stereotypical black dude treated in Canada (live, gangs)

[WZL]

Nickjbor, you have just proved my point. What you are describing here IS racism. And it is MUCH worse than what you would find in America (believe me, I have lived there). It is an extremely troubling thing if you have to speak "White" to be accepted in a society. You're basically saying that success is judged by how "White" you can become. This is a very sad reality...but reality nonetheless. It also shows that Canada is not the grandiose melting pot that it claims to be.

On a side note, my English is perfect. So any discrimination against me is not due to my English or my qualifications. Also, there should be nothing wrong with having an African American accent as long as your grammar and professionalism are good. Half the people in Toronto don't even speak decent English to begin with...including some that have interviewed me! To make matters worse, a large percentage of the whites in higher level professional positions have a either a high school diploma or maybe just an Undergraduate degree. However, they still manage to thrive off upward mobility while better qualified minorities languish beneath the glass ceiling. This is statistically correct...I just don't have the websites with the statistics on hand right now.

Also, you mentioned that "In short - people in Toronto expect certain things from those born in a "white" country. They will accept an immigrant who is 'different' but they expect those born here to act a certain way, dress a certain way, and talk a certain way. If you dont fit into that (and the steryotype of the african-american male does not) then you might well be shunned; not because of the colour of your skin, but because of other things."

By default, this is a text book case of racism due to color because they immediately stereotype a black male due "other things" like an accent. As for me, I believe discrimination took place after the in-person interviews (I usually conduct phone interviews prior to the final face-to-face interviews). Many of interviewers probably can't even pinpoint the different American accents out there...some of them even thought that I was Canadian.

Thanks for your post though.

[Frank_Carbonni]

Canada isn't very racist, so you shouldn't habe too many problems should you decide to move to Canada.

[lndigo]

Originally Posted by Sonrise

Moosejockey,
Black Canadians aren't "african american". Sorry to be anal but that particular statement is a major pet peeve of mine and is becoming more prevalent due to insane p.c. as a matter of fact Sports Illustrated did a lil write up about Ottawa's goalie remarking that he's the first "african america" to lead his team to the stanley cup. Despite the fact that Ray Emery is born and raised in Ontario, CANADA. We as a society have become so concerned with politically correct terms that we don't let facts get in the way. UGGGHHHH!!!!!! Okay, I'm off my soapbox now. Proceed.

I always had the idea that the American in African American referred to the Americas (Canada to Argentina).

[losttrini]

I am just going to add my two cents as a three "degreed", four language speaking person of black descent . On the east coast - things are fine more or less - its a very subtle discrimination- in the prairies - way more overt ,my companions find that you may be treated like **** in some areas especially the rural areas, BC - hey anything goes - one love and all that .

[nickjbor]

Originally Posted by WZL

Nickjbor, you have just proved my point. What you are describing here IS racism.

I debated responding to this - and if I did what I'd say - as it could start a flame war. I've decided to just say this:

language has nothing to do with race. I've seen people who look like they just hopped off the plane from Bejing who speak better english then I do (I have a canadian east coast accent) and I know people who look too 'white' to be norwegan who can speak fluent korean. As I said, in Toronto we dont expect immigrants to speak perfect english, but we hope that their kids can. In fact, when we see children of immigrants who speak not only perfect spanish (or whatever) and perfect english, we view that as a huge success. My last point is that I have honestly seen more "white" people speaking with an african-american accent in this city then I have "black" people. I was actually on the Ossington bus today at Vaughan and Oakwood, and there were three black male youth sitting within 10 feet of me. Two of them were speaking (in perfect english) about basketball and the school league they are in, and the other was on his cell speaking (in pefect english) to what must have been his girlfriend.

[chicken.or.the.nugget]

people are jokingly racist to them

[zoran]

If you were coming to our city you would be treated the same as anyone else. We've been to most parts of Canada and I have never noticed any blacks that have been treated with less respect then any white person. There are exceptions to every rule but then if they treated you with disrespect they would treat whites with disrespect. We have black teachers, doctors, students, neighbours, and I don't think we stop to think of their colour.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by nickjbor

First of all be aware that Toronto and Montreal are the only two cities in canada with "american levels" of black people, and in Montreal, they all speak french.

In Toronto you wont find as much racism as in the US, but be aware that this is changing. There is a growing ammount of crime commited by black youth (mostly against other black youth) that makes people start to see everyone in a bad light. I'll be very bluntly honest with you right how, and dont take this the wrong way, but if you have an "african american" accent, you likely WILL run into roadblocks. Many of the blacks here either speak "white" english, or are immigrants from africa, and have heavy nigerian/ghanan accents. The thinking among white canadians is "why cant these people talk proper english if they were born and raised in an english country?" Remember, Toronto is a city of immigrants. More then half of the people who live here were not borh here, and a huge number were born in other countries. If they have children here, and those children have accents, people kind of see that as a failure. Rather then racism being based on skin colour, it is based on how you speak. (This is shown well in the quebec-canada arguments) It is also important how you dress, and this goes for anyone of any colour in Toronto. Wearing baggy pants and a backwords ball cap will indicate that you wish to appear "tuff" and that tends to not go over well. Rather then black people, I mostly see children of spanish and pakistani immigrants wearing this getup.

In short - people in Toronto expect certain things from those born in a "white" country. They will accept an immigrant who is 'different' but they expect those born here to act a certain way, dress a certain way, and talk a certain way. If you dont fit into that (and the steryotype of the african-american male does not) then you might well be shunned; not because of the colour of your skin, but because of other things.

What about the Black people of Nova Scotia that decended from mainly Americans that were loyal to the British? Do they run into roadblocks due to this? Same with Blacks from Southwestern Ontario. I know cities like Halifax and Windsor have Black communities with strong African American roots.

Also, I thought that I read that the black people of Canada are more assimilated than Asians in Canada. So, it the image of crime just showing Black people in a narrow light there too? I know about things like Africville and a cemetary in the Priceville Ontario area that was mostly Black that was torn up by a local farmer in the past. I think Dresden has had some issues at times too and is actually a small town with a good sized Black community that makes up around 12% of the population there. So, there have been some incidents that have been documented throughout the history of Black Canadians in terms of racial issues.

Check this info. out:http://web.archive.org/web/200709281...9/news/n4.html

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~dsucha/shiloh.html

http://www.historycooperative.org/jo...50/carson.html

http://www.shunpiking.com/bhs/longwalk.htm

http://www.bccns.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan%27s_Alley_(Vancouver)

http://www.abheritage.ca/pasttoprese..._settlers.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africville,_Nova_Scotia

http://archives.cbc.ca/society/racism/topics/96/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilberforce_Colony

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Preston,_Nova_Scotia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Burgundy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_C...s#cite_note-17

[Sonrise]

Originally Posted by WZL

First of all, I will tell you this...America may have its problems but Canada is that much worse. I'm a black male with an MBA and have lived in Chicago, Raleigh-North Carolina, and Silver Spring-Maryland (DC area). I moved to Canada (Toronto) 6 months ago, and I can tell you right now that I have faced a lot of discrimination during my job search (I'm still looking). The racism here is not overt. It is very subtle, but what I did realize was that, you're kind of expected to know your place. I would get a lot of calls from employers and get phone interviews done very quickly, before moving on to the final face-to-face interviews. It was after this stage that I would be met with dead silence. Emails and calls not returned. I wouldn't even get a "We found someone else" gesture. It could just be bad luck....but then again...in a country where employment opportunities are strongly correlated to skin color, I'm forced to think otherwise (Hidden Discrimination)

Stay in America brother. It is the only developed country with a significant indigenous black population. This is an advantage because it desensitizes some of the culture shock that whites in Canada are going through because of the large scale immigration to that country (mainly due to favorable immigration laws). Why don't you try DC or Atlanta? You will find tons of Black Professionals there. That's where I plan to move back to once I leave Toronto.

Regarding hip hop. I see nothing wrong with it. If you come to Canada, you will immediately notice that the people with fitted caps, baggy jeans, and G-Unit hoodies are white, asian, and of course black. But the whites and asians together make up more hip hop heads than the blacks. In fact, google, any Canadian rapper, and you will notice that they are either white, or middle eastern. This is true anywhere else outside of the States (Europe etc).

Regarding women, well, because of the smaller black population and the popularity of BET and hip hop in general, interracial relationships with blacks are pretty common. I would say about the same as in the States, depending on where you go.

Think carefully before leaving the States otherwise you might get caught up in a pipe dream like what happened to me. Think about it this way, the US is ready to accept a Black president...Canada on the other hand, is about lifetime away from that...seriously.

Charlotte's actually now #1 for successful black businesses. I love when other countries, namely European ones try and lecture us about racism, yet they have like, zero black politicians. France and England have a fairly significant black minority population, yet hardly any black politicians, let alone Presidential or Prime Minister candidates. In fact out of 565+ members of the French parliament they have exactly 1, yes, 1, black pol. lol

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Sonrise

Charlotte's actually now #1 for successful black businesses. I love when other countries, namely European ones try and lecture us about racism, yet they have like, zero black politicians. France and England have a fairly significant black minority population, yet hardly any black politicians, let alone Presidential or Prime Minister candidates. In fact out of 565+ members of the French parliament they have exactly 1, yes, 1, black pol. lol

Congrats to the Americans on having what looks to be a very promising president (and who cares about his skin colour? rightfully so).

But to be fair to the UK, France and even Canada, the black population in these countries is well below 5%. In the U.S., it’s somewhere between 12 and 15%. So the plain old odds are just that much greater of seeing an African-American president in the U.S. than someone of African origin in the top job in the other three countries.