U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-29-2012, 03:14 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,241 posts, read 6,581,911 times
Reputation: 14207
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1newyorkguy View Post
Is it possible to force bus passengers to have bathed in the past 2 weeks to board busses here? Perhaps we could have some sort of car-wash for people one has to enter to board. Lowering the fare to $1 and then enforcing it for EVERYONE might fix things. Don't see why taxes should subsidize public transit for crack heads and prostitutes to go from score to score.

Hey if that's too much, how about at least kicking off people that spit phlegm on it?
What you do is you take care of your own delicate sensitivities instead of trying to change other people's sensitivities. You rub a little dab of essential oil on your upper lip. Lavender or rose geranium for example ... very relaxing .... or a heady musk, or even oil of cedar or sage.

If you can't afford EO's for your upper lip then might I suggest a bit of Pinesol or even some Listerine? Oh, and you might want to get yourself some blinkers to wear on the bus too, that way you won't notice the phlegm.



.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2012, 12:17 AM
 
26,097 posts, read 28,500,170 times
Reputation: 24807
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
I consider it an advantage. You post this same post whenever someone talks about coming to Canada, and I don't see why as everyone understands that healthcare is paid for through our taxes, this isn't something that people don't understand. Fact is, it's a good deal compared to the US. With single payer, we pay WAY less for healthcare as a percentage of the economy's GDP, it's efficient and the economies of scale mean real savings. Also, the price controls on things like pharmaceuticals mean lower prices here. You only need so much to live comfortably, I don't mind paying higher taxes if it means living in a just society and having a safety net if things go unexpectedly wrong for me or the someone in my family or community. I like living in a country where people aren't going bankrupt from healthcare costs and becoming a worse burden through the crime and poverty this creates. I do have issues with the system as compared to other countries which execute this idea more efficiently, we're really only a good deal next to the USA which is bankrupting itself through the massive inefficiencies of its health system.
You make some good points on the health care issue between the US & Canada.

The one thing I'd also like to point out is that the part of health care that is funded by taxes (which is about 50% of US health care spending) is NOT any more efficiently run than private health care. A lot of people (Americans included) assume that government run health care will be more cost effective, but that hasn't been our experience with the part of our health care system that is funded by our tax dollars; hence many of us are loathe to give up more control. We are not blind to the failure of the private system. It's just that our government hasn't proven it can do better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 12:27 AM
 
26,097 posts, read 28,500,170 times
Reputation: 24807
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
My main contention with these posts is that we are entering a new period in US healthcare.

Did people just ignore all the legislation passed and signed over the past few years? No matter how much the GOP threatens to repeal the law, the fact remains that as we sit here now, the PPACA is the law of the land. So stop dealing with past problems that this law has set out to correct.

How many years did it take for the Canada Health Act to hit on all its goals? Overnight? So why can't the same courtesy be extended to the US when speaking about its "New" Healthcare system.

So I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the new legislation (and similar systems such as the Massachusetts,Swiss and Dutch reforms) Before adding commentary to a subject you do not understand.
We really don't know what the effect of the legislation will be. There are almost always unintended consequences.

The Massachusetts plan got coverage for everyone, but has not done a darn thing about getting the cost down. That is something the politicians always promise with government health care, but they are never held accountable when it doesn't happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 10:30 AM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,159 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
We really don't know what the effect of the legislation will be. There are almost always unintended consequences.

The Massachusetts plan got coverage for everyone, but has not done a darn thing about getting the cost down. That is something the politicians always promise with government health care, but they are never held accountable when it doesn't happen.
The Mass cost containment Bill is currently in the legislature, its actually pretty big news in the Industry. Mass. House Avoids Major Changes In Cost Containment Bill Update - Kaiser Health News

Of course the Mass law didnt do anything for cost containment, because it didnt deal with costs during the initial phase. First phase was coverage and passed with flying colors. Now we are dealing with the Cost Containment portion.

If you are not sure what the US Bill will look like I would suggest you familiarize yourself with Switzerland and The Netherlands reforms. Very similar.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 02:48 PM
 
26,097 posts, read 28,500,170 times
Reputation: 24807
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
The Mass cost containment Bill is currently in the legislature, its actually pretty big news in the Industry. Mass. House Avoids Major Changes In Cost Containment Bill Update - Kaiser Health News

Of course the Mass law didnt do anything for cost containment, because it didnt deal with costs during the initial phase. First phase was coverage and passed with flying colors. Now we are dealing with the Cost Containment portion.

If you are not sure what the US Bill will look like I would suggest you familiarize yourself with Switzerland and The Netherlands reforms. Very similar.
I think it's typical that MA didn't even bother with cost containment until years after working on the coverage issue. The reason people can't get covered in the first place is because of the high cost of care, since many small employers dumped coverage due to the escalating costs. It says to me the health care issue is more about power and control rather than doing what's best for the people.

You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical that we'll end up with a health care system (reasonable cost and well run) like Switzerland's or the Netherlands. I'll believe it when I see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,568,089 times
Reputation: 8908
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
You make some good points on the health care issue between the US & Canada.

The one thing I'd also like to point out is that the part of health care that is funded by taxes (which is about 50% of US health care spending) is NOT any more efficiently run than private health care. A lot of people (Americans included) assume that government run health care will be more cost effective, but that hasn't been our experience with the part of our health care system that is funded by our tax dollars; hence many of us are loathe to give up more control. We are not blind to the failure of the private system. It's just that our government hasn't proven it can do better.
One of the good things about Canada's healthcare system is that the politicians DO NOT RUN IT!!!! If it were the case that they did, then our healthcare would be doomed. What happens here is the politicins give the healthcare providers a hundred dollars and then demand to get a thousand dollars worth of service for that hundred bucks. We get at least three times the results for every dollar spent than the USA gets in their for profit system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
2,200 posts, read 3,792,726 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
You make some good points on the health care issue between the US & Canada.

The one thing I'd also like to point out is that the part of health care that is funded by taxes (which is about 50% of US health care spending) is NOT any more efficiently run than private health care. A lot of people (Americans included) assume that government run health care will be more cost effective, but that hasn't been our experience with the part of our health care system that is funded by our tax dollars; hence many of us are loathe to give up more control. We are not blind to the failure of the private system. It's just that our government hasn't proven it can do better.
That's because a lot of the cost of healthcare is because of the massive amount of overhead, paperwork, employees, etc. that must be dedicated to the private insurance system.

Once you remove all of that nonsense and have one single payer, the cost drops dramatically.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 05:59 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,159 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by psulions2007 View Post
Once you remove all of that nonsense and have one single payer, the cost drops dramatically.
That is actually not true. Other countries such as The Netherlands, Singapore and Japan have multiple payers and still have lower costs than Canada. So while some savings can be found in the overhead costs, the bulk of them are elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2012, 06:13 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,008,159 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I think it's typical that MA didn't even bother with cost containment until years after working on the coverage issue. The reason people can't get covered in the first place is because of the high cost of care, since many small employers dumped coverage due to the escalating costs. It says to me the health care issue is more about power and control rather than doing what's best for the people.

You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical that we'll end up with a health care system (reasonable cost and well run) like Switzerland's or the Netherlands. I'll believe it when I see it.
So you expect the entire system to be overhauled and reach its goals in under 8 years. Have you read up on how long it took Canada's system to be overhauled and reach its goals?

If coverage issues were only cost based, how can you explain Massachusetts insuring 98% of its population without any cost containment measures?

Also you have to separate per capita cost from out of pocket costs. The Massachusetts Healthcare law lowered out of pocket costs for individuals, due to the generous subsidies included in the Bill. The increase in costs were mainly passed down to large employers and the government. Which is what this Bill in the legislature sets out to correct. But individuals saw their out of pocket costs go down since 2006.

Also if you are interested you should look into what the Swiss system looked like 20 years ago, it was in even more of a mess than the US system. So you saying that you are skeptical does not lead me to believe that you are well versed in the Swiss system and their history.

What they did do though was make unique changes that respected two of their most profitable industries (Pharma and Medical Research) along with the consumer and that resulted in a balanced partnership between the government and private sector. You are off on the costs though, the Swiss system is still the 2nd most expensive in the world (After the US) but the standard of Healthcare is incredible. Have you taken a tour of a Swiss Hospital? They are immaculate, well staffed and innovative.

With that said though they are still 2,000/per capita less expensive than the US system, so it shows that the standard of care does not have to be compromised to achieve these goals.

I personally am Glad Massachusetts and the Obama Administration modeled their reform after the Swiss system rather than Canada.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Hillsboro, OR
2,200 posts, read 3,792,726 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
That is actually not true. Other countries such as The Netherlands, Singapore and Japan have multiple payers and still have lower costs than Canada. So while some savings can be found in the overhead costs, the bulk of them are elsewhere.
The US spends on average a factor of 4 more on healthcare than other western nations.

Canada tops the list of other western nations, but even then the US spends about 3.5 times as much on healthcare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top