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Old 04-03-2012, 07:28 PM
 
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I have a simpler answer to the birther attitude and I would think that it is somewhat obvious.


As for the being born on American soil take, I agree that history has a lot to do with it. IMO though, I dare say that there is an extreme/deification bent in regards to that as well.

 
Old 04-04-2012, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumbler. View Post
Interesting responses, guys. Most of your reponses do have to do with the historical circumstances of Canada vs. the US shaping the attitude, which is an impression I kind of had.

I'm aware of the relative paths to nation-building (at least from the stuff I remember in history class back in school) they went through respectively but I just found it very interesting from a relatively modern point of view, how even if this attitude was born out of (no pun intended) a time when the US was still breaking free of the Empire, and the circumstances that applied then (the idea that anyone born on our soil we can trust), even if not so applicable now, still shapes differing North American worldviews in 2008 or 2012.

I wonder in the US, how many of those who raised the "birther conspiracy" topic were consciously thinking "if our president is born overseas, he may be more loyal to "his country" than to our country, the way the loyalists betrayed us to the redcoats back then."
I don't think wrt the birthers that this is the issue at all - as Acajack already said, they focus on it because the US President must by law be American born, and therefore if they can cast doubts on where Obama was born, they think they can invalidate his presidency. If Obama was not born an American, he could not lawfully be president. Of course, just what their motives are in going to the extremes they have already gone to in the face of all evidence to the contrary, is beyond shameful.

In general, without Obama as any sort of an issue, yes, I think that there is a mindset among some Americans that Americans born on American soil are somehow more loyal.

However, Canada has its own history wrt to that - witness the treatment of German immigrants in Canada and the Japanese during the second World War. And right now the backlash against Muslims, who of course constitute a religion rather than an ethnicity, reminds me a lot of that.

Last edited by netwit; 04-04-2012 at 01:15 AM.. Reason: added line
 
Old 04-04-2012, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Yeah, we've definitely got our own history of tribalism, on many occasions it's gotten quite nasty.
 
Old 04-04-2012, 07:32 AM
 
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Dare I say that Canadians seem more willing to change with the times than Americans? It seems that Americans are more rooted in the tradition, "the way it has been for generations" whereas Canadians are more willing to look at the idea that just because it has always been that way doesn't necessarily mean that is the right way. Look at gay rights, perhaps, as another example. The debate over it in the US is much more heated than in Canada.
 
Old 04-04-2012, 07:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luhts View Post
... Look at gay rights, perhaps, as another example. The debate over it in the US is much more heated than in Canada.
Yes well it would have to be more heated - there is no debate in Canada.
 
Old 04-04-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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Americans have a strong streak of "Nationalism" running through the culture. Nationalism is just a facy term for tribalism and has the same bad effects upon the society. Racism, hyper patriotism, ignorance of the larger world and so on. Your average American does not know the difference between patriotism and Nationalism and three the reouble begins. It's a very rare thing in world history for a multicultural society to be Nationalistic as that defines, "Blood, race and heritage" I think this nationalism is largely responsible for the lingering racism we see every day in the USA.
These nationalists can rationalize and even support even the most criminal acts by the state because the Nation can do no wrong. Remember the protests against the Vietnam war? These stooges reaction to that was ,"America, love it or leave it". Remember the backlash against anyone who came out against GW Bushes criminal attack against Iraq? It wasn't pretty I'll tell ya.
This nationalist aspect is one of the biggest differences between Canada and the USA.
 
Old 04-04-2012, 10:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
With respect to whomever leads the country, whether or not someone is eligible for the job is a question of constitutional law. In the U.S. the law says you have to be born in the United States. In Canada, you simply have to be a citizen (native-born or naturalized).

I suspect that the reason the laws differ goes back to the origins of the countries. The Americans rebelled against the British and "made a break" from established non-democratic rule from abroad. As such, anyone not born in the U.S. might have been seen as of suspect loyalty. It was deemed better to stick with the native-born only.

Canada's independence was an evolutionary process. There was no real break. In its beginnings as a country, Canada was not even completely independent and the first several Prime Ministers were all British-born, and we have had British-born Prime Ministers on and off since 1867, although they are now a rare and endangered species: the last one I think was the short-lived (as PM) John Turner in the 1980s.
This may be true, but how exactly does this bash America? GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
 
Old 04-05-2012, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevike View Post
This may be true, but how exactly does this bash America? GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
I never was very good at following ''THE PROGRAM"...
 
Old 04-05-2012, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,561,521 times
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Well, my father in law always has one thing to say about that American law. He spent the entire of WW2 on the eastern front against the Russians. He asys, "if we had had that law in Germany we would never have had that Austrian Hitler as the head of state!"
 
Old 04-19-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Alaska
2,787 posts, read 2,507,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
Americans have a strong streak of "Nationalism" running through the culture. Nationalism is just a facy term for tribalism and has the same bad effects upon the society. Racism, hyper patriotism, ignorance of the larger world and so on. Your average American does not know the difference between patriotism and Nationalism and three the reouble begins. It's a very rare thing in world history for a multicultural society to be Nationalistic as that defines, "Blood, race and heritage" I think this nationalism is largely responsible for the lingering racism we see every day in the USA.
These nationalists can rationalize and even support even the most criminal acts by the state because the Nation can do no wrong. Remember the protests against the Vietnam war? These stooges reaction to that was ,"America, love it or leave it". Remember the backlash against anyone who came out against GW Bushes criminal attack against Iraq? It wasn't pretty I'll tell ya.
This nationalist aspect is one of the biggest differences between Canada and the USA.
I think that the reason we come across as "nationalistic" is as one poster said.

Canada evolved into a "independent" (how independent are you really when the final say rests with a foreign queen, just a sidebar) nation, whereas, we Americans paid for our independence, twice (don't forget the War of 1812) with our blood and our treasure.

There is something about the shedding of blood that makes all the difference in the world in a nation's perception and appreciation of certain political events.

I am not saying that Canada is a lesser nation than the United States but I am saying that maybe some Canadians should be less judgmental of Americans, because unless your forefathers have fought and died to win your freedom, you're really not in a position to pass judgment. What you might see as nationalistic, we may view as preserving freedom and security for the United States.............and Canada.

Just my two cents.

Respectfully submitted.
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