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Old 07-18-2016, 08:42 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,257 posts, read 6,591,773 times
Reputation: 14273

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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
I think is 100% depends on where in Canada and where in the USA we are talking about. I remember working in a hospital in another part of Canada that was less multicultural and doing an assessment on this elderly white Canadian man. When I told him the heart surgeon that operated on him had asked me to do a follow up assessment on his comments were ... oh you mean that Paki guy. In my head I was like wow ... maybe he should have been on break when you had your heard attack or let you code out you ungrateful piece of work.

I think it can be hit or miss in either Country depending on the location. In general I find Canadians are generally less openly racist. Being visibly fair, but ethnically not white. I accident hear some crazy racist stuff that most visible minorities don't hear because I tend to blend in and people forget and drop comments that are crazy offensive especially when around people that appear to be from the same culture or race as them. One thing I noticed is that no group is much better then the other at this ex all groups do this to other groups. It is not only "white" people that do this.
Okay, re: the bolded part I don't get it. What did the elderly patient say that was racist or derogatory about the surgeon? Was he expressing dislike or disgust for the doctor? The patient identified with the surgeon by the surgeon's nationality and used a common shortened form of Pakistani and I don't think there's anything unusual about that.

.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,443,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
I think is 100% depends on where in Canada and where in the USA we are talking about. I remember working in a hospital in another part of Canada that was less multicultural and doing an assessment on this elderly white Canadian man. When I told him the heart surgeon that operated on him had asked me to do a follow up assessment on his comments were ... oh you mean that Paki guy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Okay, re: the bolded part I don't get it. What did the elderly patient say that was racist or derogatory about the surgeon? Was he expressing dislike or disgust for the doctor? The patient identified with the surgeon by the surgeon's nationality and used a common shortened form of Pakistani and I don't think there's anything unusual about that.
.

LOL Is that a common word you hear in liberal Vancouver Zoisite? So much for klmrocks theory.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:34 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,936,205 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It makes (or made) more sense to talk about black culture in the US when the vast majority of people are African-Americans with roots in the country going back a few hundred years, and descended from slaves. (Also included are people of other origins like Barack Obama who integrated with that group.)

Even in the US this is slowly changing as the black community is less dominated by African-Americans and the population of blacks is increasingly diversified.

In any event, in Canada the black population has never been so overwhelmingly made up of a single ethno-cultural group as in the US.

My experience is the same as others: most blacks identify more with their nationality like Haitian, Jamaican, etc. There is some collective sentiment among for example francophone blacks from several west African countries. But that's about it for "cutting across'' national origins. Even east African francophone blacks don't hang out with west African francophone blacks that much as they are quite different.

It sould be like me hanging out with a Russian just because we're white.


The black Canadian (non immigrant) are a very small group, so it is the black immigrant experience which defines black identity, so Caribana is definitely black Canadian culture.


Black culture in the USA refers to black AMERICAN cultures. Folks need to cease their ignorance and understand that the average black American has had a LONGER ancestry than has the average white American. So clearly they have very well entrenched identities.


Folks can sing kumbaya but Canada is no color bind society, and I know this because I worked in a Canadian bank in NYC and that was the MOST racist environment that I have ever worked in. Just that Canadians, like the British, aren't blunt, as are Americans, so keep certain attitudes well disguised.
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:38 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,936,205 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Secondly it confirmed to some extent that without the predominant historically "domestic" black culture the others are free to flourish with individual distinctiveness in Canada.


There are hugely dynamic Caribbean cultures in NYC and Miami. So I don't understand those who think that some how it is more limited in its assertion than it is in Canada.


The NY area alone has more Caribbean blacks than ALL of Canada! And I am not even including those from the DR and Puerto Rico. There are ENTIRE neighborhoods in NYC where one would think that they are in a Caribbean city, given the intense Caribbean identities and cultures which are readily available.


And yes there is a cricketing league too, as well as a Caribbean soccer league. 3 Caribbean food companies, ALL having revenues over US$50 million!
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,786,103 times
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Default .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Okay, re: the bolded part I don't get it. What did the elderly patient say that was racist or derogatory about the surgeon? Was he expressing dislike or disgust for the doctor? The patient identified with the surgeon by the surgeon's nationality and used a common shortened form of Pakistani and I don't think there's anything unusual about that.

.
Sorry ... I should have been more detailed. It was his tone, facicial expression and the way he said it. It was intently said that say to be disresptful. Also the doctor was not from Pakistan and at least where I am from/ Toronto use if the work Paki vs Pakistan is used when tryi g to be disresptful or racist. It is not use as a short forum. Most people using the term don't even understand the different between anyone in that region.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:06 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,257 posts, read 6,591,773 times
Reputation: 14273
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post

LOL Is that a common word you hear in liberal Vancouver Zoisite? So much for klmrocks theory.
I don't live in Vancouver, but yes, that is a common term used in British Columbia, even used by Pakistani people from Pakistan. There's a local amateur sports team called the Pakis, all the team members are Pakistanis. I guess that means they must be very liberal if they shorten their own name, eh?

The term Paki is used in reference to a Pakistani person as commonly as the term Canuck is used in reference to a Canadian person and as you might have heard at some point, there is a popular BC sports team called the Canucks too and no offense is intended by it.

Are you a Canadian? Do you have a problem with the term Canuck too, are you offended by being called a Canuck by non-Canadians? Does it bother you when Canadians refer to their ownselves as Canucks?

Or is that different? If so, why?

Does it offend you when so many Americans, and many Canadians too, refer to Canada as Canuckistan? Because that is another common term that a lot of people use without intending offense or any kind of bigotry. I see people posting Canuckistan or Canukistan online all the time and they mostly are using it with good natured intent.

How about both Canadian and American aboriginals? Is it offensive when non-aboriginals still refer to them as Indians, when aboriginals refer to their own selves and each other as Indians? Many aboriginals still do that, you know. I often wonder how REAL Indians from India feel about having had their own origin name misappropriated like that but I have never asked.

How about British people? Is it offensive to refer to them as Brits? How about referring to Russians as Russkies?

Very often it is not what is said but how it is said that is offensive.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 07-19-2016 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:18 AM
 
18,284 posts, read 10,383,572 times
Reputation: 13351
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There are hugely dynamic Caribbean cultures in NYC and Miami. So I don't understand those who think that some how it is more limited in its assertion than it is in Canada.


The NY area alone has more Caribbean blacks than ALL of Canada! And I am not even including those from the DR and Puerto Rico. There are ENTIRE neighborhoods in NYC where one would think that they are in a Caribbean city, given the intense Caribbean identities and cultures which are readily available.


And yes there is a cricketing league too, as well as a Caribbean soccer league. 3 Caribbean food companies, ALL having revenues over US$50 million!
Flourish was perhaps the incorrect word to use as my intention was to indicate that Canada's black cultures are not burdened with the historically predominant African American one (with all that it implies) hanging over their heads.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,443,437 times
Reputation: 3262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't live in Vancouver, but yes, that is a common term used in British Columbia, even used by Pakistani people from Pakistan. There's a local amateur sports team called the Pakis, all the team members are Pakistanis. I guess that means they must be very liberal if they shorten their own name, eh?

The term Paki is used in reference to a Pakistani person as commonly as the term Canuck is used in reference to a Canadian person and as you might have heard at some point, there is a popular BC sports team called the Canucks too and no offense is intended by it.

Are you a Canadian? Do you have a problem with the term Canuck too, are you offended by being called a Canuck by non-Canadians? Does it bother you when Canadians refer to their ownselves as Canucks?

Or is that different? If so, why?

Does it offend you when so many Americans, and many Canadians too, refer to Canada as Canuckistan? Because that is another common term that a lot of people use without intending offense or any kind of bigotry. I see people posting Canuckistan or Canukistan online all the time and they mostly are using it with good natured intent.

How about both Canadian and American aboriginals? Is it offensive when non-aboriginals still refer to them as Indians, when aboriginals refer to their own selves and each other as Indians? Many aboriginals still do that, you know. I often wonder how REAL Indians from India feel about having had their own origin name misappropriated like that but I have never asked.

How about British people? Is it offensive to refer to them as Brits? How about referring to Russians as Russkies?

Very often it is not what is said but how it is said that is offensive.

.
ok ok ok Paki is not an offensive term, Use as often as you can.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:20 AM
 
489 posts, read 1,052,184 times
Reputation: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't live in Vancouver, but yes, that is a common term used in British Columbia, even used by Pakistani people from Pakistan. There's a local amateur sports team called the Pakis, all the team members are Pakistanis. I guess that means they must be very liberal if they shorten their own name, eh?

The term Paki is used in reference to a Pakistani person as commonly as the term Canuck is used in reference to a Canadian person and as you might have heard at some point, there is a popular BC sports team called the Canucks too and no offense is intended by it.

Are you a Canadian? Do you have a problem with the term Canuck too, are you offended by being called a Canuck by non-Canadians? Does it bother you when Canadians refer to their ownselves as Canucks?

Or is that different? If so, why?

Does it offend you when so many Americans, and many Canadians too, refer to Canada as Canuckistan? Because that is another common term that a lot of people use without intending offense or any kind of bigotry. I see people posting Canuckistan or Canukistan online all the time and they mostly are using it with good natured intent.

How about both Canadian and American aboriginals? Is it offensive when non-aboriginals still refer to them as Indians, when aboriginals refer to their own selves and each other as Indians? Many aboriginals still do that, you know. I often wonder how REAL Indians from India feel about having had their own origin name misappropriated like that but I have never asked.

How about British people? Is it offensive to refer to them as Brits? How about referring to Russians as Russkies?

Very often it is not what is said but how it is said that is offensive.

.
Paki is a racial slur. It doesn't have the same connotation as "brits".
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,786,103 times
Reputation: 4619
Default Black Canadian Culture ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
There are hugely dynamic Caribbean cultures in NYC and Miami. So I don't understand those who think that some how it is more limited in its assertion than it is in Canada.


The NY area alone has more Caribbean blacks than ALL of Canada! And I am not even including those from the DR and Puerto Rico. There are ENTIRE neighborhoods in NYC where one would think that they are in a Caribbean city, given the intense Caribbean identities and cultures which are readily available.


And yes there is a cricketing league too, as well as a Caribbean soccer league. 3 Caribbean food companies, ALL having revenues over US$50 million!
I think it depends on the city. In Toronto most people that identify as black are immigrants or are from immigrant families. In Nova Scotia in places in around Halifax for example it is a whole different story. These are blacks that have long established Canadian roots. When I meet black Canadians that have long established roots in Canada I always joke with them because about the fact people always assume they are from the Caribbean ex are you Jamaican. Other people from the Caribbean in Toronto also get that too ( when you say you are from the Caribbean the first guess people always give in Jamaican). I also want to note different black immigrants got to Canada at very different times under very different circumstances, practice very different reigionsand have very different cultures so it is pretty ridiculous to lump everyone in the idea of "black culture". The culture of Somalian Blacks is not the sme of Blacks from the English Speaking Caribbean. I think people often blur these lines too much. When in Toronto people get influenced by what they are exposed too as well. So for example it is not uncommon to see people from any cultures at a certain cultural group's events.

I also want to add I always forget how significant Caribbean culture is in Toronto until I go to events related to the Caribbean Carnival. I went to the Junior/kids Carnival it was certainly a huge reminder that there is also of people from the Caribbean in this city and the Caribbean community puts on some amazing events in this city. I would 100% encourage people to also try going to the Junior/kids Carnival next year. The costumes are great and music are great and it is not as packed (though pretty huge crowd) as the main parade on the August holiday long weekend.
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