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Old 05-29-2012, 01:00 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,318,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Well, there are 33 large metropolitan areas presently flourishing in Canada. I guess you're suggesting that there should be more metro areas spread across the country.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean about large portions of rural Canada being dependant on big cities? I am not understanding that statement. Dependant on big cities for what?

.
Of course rural and sparse areas depend on big cities on various infrastructures. For example, if there are 1000 people living in some small town in Northern Ontario, electricity and gas lines will be need to be constructed and maintainted just for these 1000 people. In big metro area it is not a problem because the fixed cost is spread over millions of users. For these remote towns, such costs are incurred inspite of the small demand.

In the end, these people pay the same price for eletricity and gas as we do in big cities, although the cost of providing such service to them is much much higher on a per person basis. Essentially, urban residents are subsidizing them. Economically speaking they are not paying for their fair share. A private company will simply NOT provide service to them because it won't even break even.
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,375 posts, read 6,654,203 times
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Perhaps that's one of the reasons why there have not already been many more small towns established in rural areas in northern Ontario.

What is the purpose of any small town being established in a rural area? There has to be a reason for it being there.

.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:44 PM
 
396 posts, read 731,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Well, there are 33 large metropolitan areas presently flourishing in Canada. I guess you're suggesting that there should be more metro areas spread across the country.

Can you please elaborate on what you mean about large portions of rural Canada being dependant on big cities? I am not understanding that statement. Dependant on big cities for what?

.
Because of those 33 half are in the windsor quebec corridor, the rest are completely dependent on natural resources as their economic engine.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:53 PM
 
396 posts, read 731,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Perhaps that's one of the reasons why there have not already been many more small towns established in rural areas in northern Ontario.

What is the purpose of any small town being established in a rural area? There has to be a reason for it being there.

.
In the past traditional economies made rural area's just as, or in many ways more important than cities.

In this day and age small towns places of 10000+ are somewhat viable, it's the fact that the young people are swept away to larger cities. They're depopulated, at the same time the countries taking in more people. It makes no sense. Small places suffer, and it has a lot to do with the value of the canadian dollar. If the canadian dollar is now hurting ontario's manufacturing, I'd hate to know what it did to atlantic canada.
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:43 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,318,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaq32 View Post
Small places suffer, and it has a lot to do with the value of the canadian dollar. If the canadian dollar is now hurting ontario's manufacturing, I'd hate to know what it did to atlantic canada.
Canadian dollars rise because of the strength of Canadian economy. Our currency is freely traded in the market, and its value reflects its desirability.

Higher currency value is not an excuse for sluggish economy. Japan and Germany for example, have always run trade surplus with China, widely blamed for low currency value and "cheap exports". They can do that because they produce high quality products that are hard to replace. As a developed country, Canada would be looking at Germany and Japan when it comes to how to build our advantage and boost export, instead of hoping for weak currency value - developing countries can do that, we can't.

Speaking of Atlantic Canada, what exactly do they produce? How diversified its economy is? How diversified its export destination is? If you keep producing the same products to the same importer, of course your ecnomy will be badly hurt when something unexpected happens.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Canadian dollars rise because of the strength of Canadian economy. Our currency is freely traded in the market, and its value reflects its desirability.

Higher currency value is not an excuse for sluggish economy. Japan and Germany for example, have always run trade surplus with China, widely blamed for low currency value and "cheap exports". They can do that because they produce high quality products that are hard to replace. As a developed country, Canada would be looking at Germany and Japan when it comes to how to build our advantage and boost export, instead of hoping for weak currency value - developing countries can do that, we can't.

Speaking of Atlantic Canada, what exactly do they produce? How diversified its economy is? How diversified its export destination is? If you keep producing the same products to the same importer, of course your ecnomy will be badly hurt when something unexpected happens.
First off your missing the point. The canadian dollar rises, because of the strength of the economies in certain regions. If alberta/ontario does well, our dollar rises, which doesn't go well for the atlantic.
Second your example of high end manufacturing nearly made me fall out of my chair. This works in germany/japan, because they have one of the highest population densities in the world. Sure the windsor quebec corridor is developed, and it will compete in this sense, but this can never happen in places with smaller cma's, than 100 k. The economies of scale don't work.


The atlantic economy can't diversify, because the canadian dollar is too high for low wage manufacturing/we loose to much of our workforce to ontario/alberta. You can't train half an engineer, or build half a university, or find a doctor that is only willing to work half the year, and so on.

But thanks for helping to explain the issue. Anyhow this isn't just atlantic canada that has the issue. It's anywhere in eastern Quebec, Northern ontario, most of manitoba/sasketwhan, northern alberta, the territories, and northern/interior bc.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:20 PM
 
3,060 posts, read 7,177,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaq32 View Post
First off your missing the point. The canadian dollar rises, because of the strength of the economies in certain regions. If alberta/ontario does well, our dollar rises, which doesn't go well for the atlantic.
Second your example of high end manufacturing nearly made me fall out of my chair. This works in germany/japan, because they have one of the highest population densities in the world. Sure the windsor quebec corridor is developed, and it will compete in this sense, but this can never happen in places with smaller cma's, than 100 k. The economies of scale don't work.


The atlantic economy can't diversify, because the canadian dollar is too high for low wage manufacturing/we loose to much of our workforce to ontario/alberta. You can't train half an engineer, or build half a university, or find a doctor that is only willing to work half the year, and so on.

But thanks for helping to explain the issue. Anyhow this isn't just atlantic canada that has the issue. It's anywhere in eastern Quebec, Northern ontario, most of manitoba/sasketwhan, northern alberta, the territories, and northern/interior bc.
Economists do not agree with you. Atlantic Canada's economy did well even while other areas floundered. http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/...lantic1109.pdf
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sunshineleith View Post
Economists do not agree with you. Atlantic Canada's economy did well even while other areas floundered. http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/...lantic1109.pdf
Yes by two effects that the report itself cited. A natural resource boom(that is tied to long term development, unlike albertas). Which is what rural canada is eternally dependent on. And the second which is the loads of easterners in alberta coming home to retire.
I spent a year living in one of the fastest shrinking places in the province, where the only thing keeping things going is government or alberta money.

Even the population data, ignores that the fact that even with population growth overall, our population is growing older. I was actually reading about that today in the local paper.
The cma of st john's is 12.3 percent over 65, while the province is 16 percent. Meaning outside of the urban area, the average is about 24 percent. The difference from st john's to the rest of the province is drastic.

P.S. of you have any info on the economics of p.e.i I'd be real interested.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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I would say that overall Atlantic Canada is today closer to being a typical region of Canada (economically) than ever before in its history. Not that long ago, everywhere in Atlantic Canada was poorer than average: cities, towns and villages. It wasn't worth it to move from a small town to a city in your own province because there weren't many jobs in the Atlantic cities either.

Now Atlantic Canada has a good number of cities that are doing just fine economically, so young people don't all have to leave their province or region in search of opportunity any more. (Unless they really want to - and some people will always do this no matter where you are.)

If you look at the other provinces of Canada, all of them (even the richest ones) have regions that are doing well and others doing not so well.

This appears to be a normal part of economic life, but the difference now is that Atlantic Canada has several prosperous regions within the provinces themselves, and gone are the days when the most prosperous part of Newfoundland could have been said to be "Toronto".
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:13 PM
 
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Agreed, my point is that outside of cmas, the economy is dependent on raw resources. Rural canada consistently faces, boom and bust periods, which is a real problem, in the long term it means the population is never consistently grown. And the urban areas through immigration just keep getting bigger and bigger regardless of how the economies doing.
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