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Old 04-13-2015, 12:33 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,289,200 times
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Canada is cleaner and has better maintained facilities (like roads). In the US, we give everything to the rich and let public assets go to ****.
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:45 PM
 
261 posts, read 203,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
I'm glad to see that he realized that his US constitutional rights did not extend outside the US; but I am equally saddened to hear his "media silenced" story, which I can only call BS on. "The kidnapping of government ministers" has only happened once in our history, and it wasn't plural; it was singular: "minister." Yes, Pierre Laporte, a Quebec cabinet minister, was kidnapped in 1970 by the FLQ, which later executed him, but I do not recall any press censorship. On the contrary, the broadcast media gave minute-by-minute updates on the situation, while the print media caught up in extra late editions and extra morning editions. With such widespread news coverage, there was no need to demonstrate that there wasn't any news coverage.
While some FLQ members were convicted of murder for the death of Pierre Laporte, there is some evidence to show that what happened might have been more accurately described as involuntary manslaughter. That is, they did claim to have "executed" him, but that's probably not what actually happened. And in fairness, while I'm not aware of any press censorship during the October Crisis, many people were arrested and kept in jail for a long time for little more than their political opinions. This is still remembered today, at least in Quebec. (I'll point out that Thomas Mulcair, in explaining to Quebec French-language media why his party is opposed to the anti-terrorism bill -- that's C-51 I believe? -- mentioned that his party was the only one to vote against the War Measures Act in 1970, which suggests that it is still considered a relevant fact today.)
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:57 PM
 
625 posts, read 1,188,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Canada is cleaner and has better maintained facilities (like roads). In the US, we give everything to the rich and let public assets go to ****.
You obviously haven't visited where I live. I find the US and Canada have remarkably similar infrastructure problems, which you can read about in any paper. True, some cities (Vancouver) have made great strides in public transit, and even Calgary started investment in light rail in the 70s, but then again so have some US cities like San Francisco.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,172 posts, read 1,752,214 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
While some FLQ members were convicted of murder for the death of Pierre Laporte, there is some evidence to show that what happened might have been more accurately described as involuntary manslaughter. That is, they did claim to have "executed" him, but that's probably not what actually happened. And in fairness, while I'm not aware of any press censorship during the October Crisis, many people were arrested and kept in jail for a long time for little more than their political opinions. This is still remembered today, at least in Quebec. (I'll point out that Thomas Mulcair, in explaining to Quebec French-language media why his party is opposed to the anti-terrorism bill -- that's C-51 I believe? -- mentioned that his party was the only one to vote against the War Measures Act in 1970, which suggests that it is still considered a relevant fact today.)
Good comments, MC. Given the circumstances of Laporte's death, it might well have been manslaughter.

I'll add that the imposition of the War Measures Act in October, 1970 is remembered in the ROC as well. I certainly remember it, as I was alive at the time; and it resonates among political and constitutional law scholars to this day. It has only been invoked three times: Canada-wide during World Wars I and II, and in Quebec in October, 1970.

Was it correct for Ottawa to invoke the Act? Hard to tell. The Act suspends civil liberties for the most part, which means that it must be used with the utmost caution. At the same time though, my research indicates that Quebec asked Ottawa to invoke it. Cite to the letter to the PM from Quebec Premier Bourassa, and an excerpt:

Quote:
Under the circumstances, on behalf of the Government of Quebec, I request that emergency powers be provided as soon as possible so that more effective steps may be taken. I request particularly that such powers encompass the authority to apprehend and keep in custody individuals who, the Attorney General of Quebec has valid reasons to believe, are determined to overthrow the government through violence and illegal means. According to the information we have and which is available to you, we are facing a concerted effort to intimidate and overthrow the government and the democratic institutions of this province through planned and systematic illegal action, including insurrection. It is obvious that those participating in this concerted effort completely reject the principle of freedom under the rule of law.

The Quebec Government is convinced that such powers are necessary to meet the present emergency. Not only are two completely innocent men threatened with death, but we are also faced with an attempt by a minority to destroy social order through criminal action; it is for those reasons that our government is making the present request.
Was Ottawa fulfilling Quebec's request for the War Measures Act overkill? History tells us it probably was; but at the time and on the ground, maybe it wasn't. The debate continues among scholars, and it will likely never be resolved.
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Old 04-13-2015, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,946 posts, read 27,348,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Good comments, MC. Given the circumstances of Laporte's death, it might well have been manslaughter.
.
From what I gather, Pierre Laporte grew tired of waiting to be released or rescued, and tried to escape. He was being held with a chain or rope of some kind around his neck, and during his escape attempt it became tangled up and tightened and ended up strangling him to death.
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Old 04-13-2015, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,265 posts, read 13,159,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Hate to break it to you PB but Quebec,French and its culture are for the most part irrelevant outside the borders of Quebec. basically its not talked about,not cared about and not wanted. In fact its only the meaningless federal laws mandating a feeble attempt at bilingualism that keep this linguistic boondoggle alive outside Quebec.
However thanks to CD forum we can make tempests in tea pots by clogging up the Canadian section of the forum with topic after topic of vitally important discourse on the phenomenally interesting subject that is Quebec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Its a discussion forum,without some measure of stereotyping there wouldnt be much of a forum.

As for speaking for the ROC?i'm out of Quebec as much as i'm in it and as an Anglo Canadian i am fully in touch with what many outside Quebec feel about Quebec, it aint pretty. When the next referendum happens there wont be that massive outpouring of camaraderie from the ROC that there was on the last one, it will be more of a close the door behind you attitude..
Hm. Can't say that I agree with this, at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Uh, speak for yourself, jambo. Do you think you speak for all 27 million Canadians outside of Quebec?

There ARE some of us who DO talk about, care about, and want Quebec and its French culture. We love the fact that Quebec's culture IS distinct, and we feel that it should be respected and preserved. And anyone who doesn't think so has obviously never lived there. Period.

I'm in this camp. While Quebec isn't a particular topic in my circle of friends, I know of nobody who shares jambo's opinion on the matter.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,811 posts, read 4,438,884 times
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I have met people that share Jambos point of view. I totally understand how Jambo feels, but I don't agree about the French language being irrelevant though.
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Old 04-14-2015, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,265 posts, read 13,159,648 times
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Oh I have no doubt there are many. I just don't happen to know anybody that would tell Quebec "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split'cha".

Nobody wants to see them leave.
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,172 posts, read 1,752,214 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Wow. Now, there's some praise.

I almost always enjoy Chevy's posts. Having said that, I'd say Nat's doing some crushin.'
Gosh, I hope not. Nat is a great guy, but ... he's a guy.

On the other hand, NewDixieGirl, how you doing?

Seriously, folks, thanks for the support. Hope that you are all well.

~ CS
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Old 04-14-2015, 01:56 AM
 
34,378 posts, read 41,471,780 times
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While my opinions arent that popular here on the forum they arent fabricated from out of nowhere,they are formed by the experience of living in Montreal as an Anglophone for the last 35yrs and speaking to many others in Montreal and throughout Ontario and occasionally BC on the topic of Quebec.I'm just not seeing that warm and fuzzy feeling of camaraderie the ROC exhibited toward Quebec during Quebecs last referendum.

As an aside i'm open to being educated on what relevance Quebec brings to Canada.
Seems to me due to irreconcilable differences both countries need to go their own way.

Last edited by jambo101; 04-14-2015 at 02:09 AM..
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