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Old 06-07-2012, 08:23 PM
 
396 posts, read 729,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Yeah, but we're also taxed at a much higher tax rate to fund all of those extra services. I'd also argue they're a better investment for society in the long term. The idea of all that is to boost the birth rate, provinces like BC don't subsidize daycare so it's impossible to afford children which is why the birthrate is catastrophically low and we need to just constantly bring in more immigrants. That's not the way things should be.
Yeah the very obvious.

You can tell a government has no interest in it`s people, when it starts immigrating people to keep things going. The myth that people choose to have kids to not have kids is such a nonsense, rich people always have families, as do the very poor, it`s only those trapped in the middle that don`t.

Granted I`m very pro immigration, but it`s a really disgusting logic behind it.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I think the purpose of equalization is to ensure "Canadians receive equivalent services regardless of which province they live in. let's see how it worked.

- There is no other province where publicly funded daycare is available for $7 a day, when its total cost is seven times that, $49 a day. This is why Quebec, with only 20% of the daycare-age kids in the country, has about half the daycare spaces in the country

- There is no other province where university tuition fees are $1,800 a year for undergraduates, allowing Quebec residents to attend McGill, the country’s most renowned university, for about half what it would cost to attend the University of Alberta

- There is no other province where half the cost of private secondary schooling is subsidized by the provincial government. The rest of Canada hasn’t heard of that one yet. This is why about 25% of Quebec secondary students attend private schools, as opposed to a national average around 10%.

- There is no other province that provides free in vitro fertilization treatments as part of publicly funded health care. The treatments can cost $7,000 and $15,000 per cycle, and a patient may undergo three cycles of IVF treatments

- There is no other province that pays for car insurance against injuries to people, which is why auto insurance cost in Quebec has been consistently the lowest in the country ($642 a year, compared with $1,281 in Ontario, $1,113 in BC, $1,046 in Saskatchewan, and $1067 in Manitoba.

So in the end, does Quebec receive the payment to enjoy the same service as the rest of Canada?
Surely, given the tone of your posts and the use of loaded words like stealing, you are no doubt aware that people in Quebec pay the highest taxes in North America.

As Bimbam said, that's what pays for the extra programs.

Not equalization, which as the name implies, brings services up to the same level in all Canadian provinces, not just Quebec. Anything on top of that is due to the higher taxes.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Balducci View Post
When did sister "Kay" (short for Quebec) last say sensible things?
.0
Well for one thing she was the member of the family that was most adamant about how joining the war in Iraq was a bad idea...
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:20 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,265,341 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Yeah, but we're also taxed at a much higher tax rate to fund all of those extra services. I'd also argue they're a better investment for society in the long term. The idea of all that is to boost the birth rate, provinces like BC don't subsidize daycare so it's impossible to afford children which is why the birthrate is catastrophically low and we need to just constantly bring in more immigrants. That's not the way things should be.
The question is, whether these generous programs are financed by higher Quebec taxes, or from other provinces, such as Alberta.
in 2011, Quebec received 7.9B equalization payment, or 60% of the total.

I have no problem if Quebec uses its only money to offer superior programs, such as affordable child day care.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:23 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,265,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Surely, given the tone of your posts and the use of loaded words like stealing, you are no doubt aware that people in Quebec pay the highest taxes in North America.

As Bimbam said, that's what pays for the extra programs.

Not equalization, which as the name implies, brings services up to the same level in all Canadian provinces, not just Quebec. Anything on top of that is due to the higher taxes.
sorry if I sounded harsh, but I am not sure the higher taxes in Quebec are sufficient for these programs I mentioned. Taxes in Ontario are not exactly low either.

Also, you haven't answered the question I asked: when was the last time Quebec give instead of receive equalization payments?
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,354,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
sorry if I sounded harsh, but I am not sure the higher taxes in Quebec are sufficient for these programs I mentioned. Taxes in Ontario are not exactly low either.

Also, you haven't answered the question I asked: when was the last time Quebec give instead of receive equalization payments?
Quebec has always ''paid into'' equalization, in the sense that its taxpayers pay into it just like all other Canadians do.

The differences are not about who pays in - everyone does.

The differences are about who receives - Quebec has always been a recipient, as have four other provinces (NB, PEI, NS and MB). Up until very recently NL had always received as well.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:58 PM
 
396 posts, read 729,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
sorry if I sounded harsh, but I am not sure the higher taxes in Quebec are sufficient for these programs I mentioned. Taxes in Ontario are not exactly low either.

Also, you haven't answered the question I asked: when was the last time Quebec give instead of receive equalization payments?
Its a pointless question, population growth is tied heavily into whether or not a province is giving out transfer payments. Being the only french part of the country, and the fact that the rest of canada puts very little value on french means its near impossible for their population to grow at a siginifcant rate.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:38 PM
 
20 posts, read 34,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaq32 View Post
Its a pointless question, population growth is tied heavily into whether or not a province is giving out transfer payments. Being the only french part of the country, and the fact that the rest of canada puts very little value on french means its near impossible for their population to grow at a siginifcant rate.

How on earth does the fact that the "rest of canada puts very little value on french" make it "near impossible" for the population of Quebec to grow at a significant rate?
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:10 AM
 
20 posts, read 34,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Since the OP's question was asked in simple terms, I will respond in simple terms as well.

Canada is the father of a family.

Quebec is the 17-year-old daughter.

The 17-year-old daughter has mused about moving out for some time, but is still willing to talk about coming to agreement with daddy. She actually quite likes daddy, but also feels he doesn't really understand her.

What the daughter really wants is the right to stay out with her friends until midnight. But daddy insists that he is the father and that she come home by 10.

Over the years, daddy has made some concessions (she used to have to come home by 9) but many of the daughter's requests for greater freedom within the family home have been stonewalled by daddy. He thinks his daughter is rather irresponsible and he doesn't really trust her with more freedom.

In lieu of granting his daughter more freedom, daddy every once in a while gives his daughter nice gifts like a TV for her room, an iPod, etc.

Of course, the daughter accepts the gifts (she is not crazy of course), but always reminds daddy that this doesn't mean she is giving up on her fight to stay out late with her friends.

Of course, under the same roof are other siblings - all of them boys. Most of them are not as uppity as their sister. They'll sometimes side with their sister in her squabbles with daddy but when the rubber hits the road they end up on daddy's side. They also tend to share their daddy's view that their sister is too irresponsible to have more freedom.

They get gifts from daddy too (some of them proportionately bigger than their sister's gifts), but there is less jealousy between the brothers over the gifts because their anger is mostly focused at their sister that gets gifts but still complains.

Daddy has grown so tired of the whole matter that he doesn't really want to talk about it anymore and prefers to brush it under the carpet.

Many of the boys are rather disinterested as well, especially since one of them won a huge lottery jackpot.

Basically, a majority of the men in the family have tuned their sister out, and even when she says something that might make sense they generally ignore her regardless.

At this point, most of the boys (and maybe even daddy, though he doesn't say it openly) think that if their sister were ever to move out, she'd be living on the streets and prostituting herself.

For some reason, they don't even think she'd have a ghost of a chance at a menial Wal-Mart job, let alone landing a professional career and building a good life for herself on her own.

If she moves out from daddy's roof - she's as good as dead. No doubt about it.

Plus she'd lose all of her friends. All of them.

Actually, "dad" made it quite clear to his middle-aged daughter that she's free to leave at anytime however once she's gone she isn't welcome to come back and use the washer and dryer rather than the laundromat, nor will she be allowed to take the family car on Friday night or drop-in to raid the fridge. Regardless, the woman believes that it's a bluff or that ultimately dad will soften his stance once she's gone but it is highly unlikely especially given the animosity she has shown some of her brothers over the years.

She has also been told that she is not to take the furnishings that dad provided for her use while she lived at home such as the bed and dresser known as Northern Quebec. She has been warned against damaging the property on the way out like a bitter tenant being evicted or a petulant teenager. The credit card bills that she has racked-up are still her responsibility but she is convinced that she'll be able to let dad and her brothers deal with it.

On two occassions she has gone as far as reserving a moving van and swore up-and-down she would be leaving on her own terms. When moving day came however she inexplicably decided to stay but advised the family it didn't mean she liked them.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:46 AM
 
34,384 posts, read 41,480,724 times
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What does Quebec want? basically have your cake and eat it to, they want all that "Equalization" money to keep rolling in and they want to have total say in how the money is used/spent and they want to be in total control of the laws they implement to protect and save their culture although i'm not seeing where their culture is in anyway threatened and i certainly dont see where separation would be in their best interest as it would bring to an end all the equalization money and the myriad of other federal related infrastructure.
To me Quebec is already another country separate from Canada it just cant bring itself to break away from the federal teat in Ottawa.
The attitude from most other Canadians i know concerning Quebec and separation is Dont let the door hit you in the ar ss on your way out eh!
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