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Old 06-08-2012, 03:47 PM
 
20 posts, read 34,732 times
Reputation: 25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLucasLongLostChin View Post
As for sovereignty, it is a rather complex issues. It's not necessarily economical. Most people who push for independance simply don't identify with Canada culturally and politically. I don't see anything wrong in that. Other countries have gained independance before. But for some reason, a lot of opponents of the idea, especially outside Quebec, resort to saying that Quebec gets money so it should be happy and remain silent.
The sentiment isn't you should shut-up and be happy, it is one of don't-think-you'll-be-stiffing-us if you're leaving by not taking your share of the national debt and don't believe for a second that Quebec isn't divisible. The First Nations certainly won't be ceding their lands to your new country.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:42 PM
 
19,046 posts, read 10,918,733 times
Reputation: 14005
The attitude of entitlement and uniqueness doesn't just stop at the Quebec border but continues even to certain enclaves where Quebecers tend to winter. The arrogance that demands special treatment and recognition continues to wherever they cluster. This tendancy to congregate then exert influence beyond the socially acceptable norms in a host country is embarrassing to the ROC who also visit those same areas and considered downright rude by folks from other countries.

Having "commuted" to the province for years of my working career; I can attest to the behaviour of the province as far back as the Expo 67 when anyone travelling there from the ROC could expect to be faced with a blank stare when attempting to communicate but just let an overseas tourist show up and suddenly they spoke enough english to book you a room.

Attending business meetings where the convener began speaking or making his presentation in English resulted in the few Quebecers present getting up and leaving the room even though this meeting was being held in Quebec to appease them not wanting to travel outside the province to the head office elsewhere. All of these idiotic and childish characteristics simply overwhelmed my ability to remain non-prejudicial regarding the frequent separation rumbles.

When we as Canadians are virtually forced to behave preferentially towards one province and one province only to be faced with the same arrogant behaviour after making all of these conscessions, is tiresome and VERY confusing to explain to citizens of other countries.

Having travelled all over the world on business; I was frequently confronted with curious folks wanting to know why citizens of a country as fortunate as those of Canada would continue finding nothing but fault and whine neverendingly about how maintaining their culture was the reason for said whining? They "got it" instantly: culture worthy of existance will sustain itself better through congeniality than through confrontation.

Does Quebec feel it can do business on an equal and acceptable fashion without the umbrella of Canada? Will other countries respect the need to comply with Quebecer's requests to do business in French when the company they're hosting knows they speak english as well. Will Quebec, in fact, even attempt to force this compliance on foreign companies or is that little feature just something they reserve for their fellow citizens in the ROC as I've long suspected.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:18 PM
 
396 posts, read 743,638 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Balducci View Post
Do these separatists tend to be of a Marxist bent and align themselves with countries that do not like the USA?

From what I have seen in these comments, some of the respondents think what Quebec needs is more socialism in the form of free college tuition. Where do you think the money will come from? And you better believe that if Quebec does become independent, it will have to raise taxes even higher if it becomes the socialist paradise the separatists want. You can't have something for nothing!

As far as preserving the French language, why should the rest of Canada become as fluent in French as Quebeckers are? Wouldn't it be easier for Quebeckers who want to move outside the province to become fluent in English? Let's look at Ireland. For many years, Ireland has pulled out all the stops to preserve the Irish language. Signs are bilingual, there is Irish-language media, and learning the language is compulsory. Yet in the end, most Irish communicate with one another in English.

By the way, why are there so many misspelled words in the comments I have read?

P.S. On another thread, there was talk about how Canadians are less political than Americans. But now I've got you talking about politics!
You do realize citing ireland makes it appear as you have no idea what your talking about. The irish language is on apart with a inukitut, hardly the most spoken language on the earth. You might wanna do a little correction before going any further.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:23 PM
 
396 posts, read 743,638 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
The attitude of entitlement and uniqueness doesn't just stop at the Quebec border but continues even to certain enclaves where Quebecers tend to winter. The arrogance that demands special treatment and recognition continues to wherever they cluster. This tendancy to congregate then exert influence beyond the socially acceptable norms in a host country is embarrassing to the ROC who also visit those same areas and considered downright rude by folks from other countries.

Having "commuted" to the province for years of my working career; I can attest to the behaviour of the province as far back as the Expo 67 when anyone travelling there from the ROC could expect to be faced with a blank stare when attempting to communicate but just let an overseas tourist show up and suddenly they spoke enough english to book you a room.

Attending business meetings where the convener began speaking or making his presentation in English resulted in the few Quebecers present getting up and leaving the room even though this meeting was being held in Quebec to appease them not wanting to travel outside the province to the head office elsewhere. All of these idiotic and childish characteristics simply overwhelmed my ability to remain non-prejudicial regarding the frequent separation rumbles.

When we as Canadians are virtually forced to behave preferentially towards one province and one province only to be faced with the same arrogant behaviour after making all of these conscessions, is tiresome and VERY confusing to explain to citizens of other countries.

Having travelled all over the world on business; I was frequently confronted with curious folks wanting to know why citizens of a country as fortunate as those of Canada would continue finding nothing but fault and whine neverendingly about how maintaining their culture was the reason for said whining? They "got it" instantly: culture worthy of existance will sustain itself better through congeniality than through confrontation.

Does Quebec feel it can do business on an equal and acceptable fashion without the umbrella of Canada? Will other countries respect the need to comply with Quebecer's requests to do business in French when the company they're hosting knows they speak english as well. Will Quebec, in fact, even attempt to force this compliance on foreign companies or is that little feature just something they reserve for their fellow citizens in the ROC as I've long suspected.
Meh the entitlement of among anglo's is just as bad, even germany is starting with anti english laws. It's a pretty common thread around the world. English eroding powers are well documented.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:09 PM
 
19,046 posts, read 10,918,733 times
Reputation: 14005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikmaq32 View Post
Meh the entitlement of among anglo's is just as bad, even germany is starting with anti english laws. It's a pretty common thread around the world. English eroding powers are well documented.
That's the very nature of my point exactly. You refer to the Anglo's in the same manner that would be used as a derogatory. Germany referring to the anglos is nothing new in regards to England but they do not feel the same towards either Canada or the U.S. of A. and this I know for fact.

You're attempting to bolster the traditional dislike by Quebecers of the predominantly english speaking ROC with the rather weak linking to the historical discord between Germany and Great Britain; the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I was making the point that Quebecers of the "separatiste" stripe use any and every opportunity to behave arrogantly towards les-anglais of Canadian origin but will operate completely differently (even politely) towards english speakers from other countries. That disconnect is just further proof that Quebecers feel a special disdain against the ROC while ignoring the fact; were they affiliated with any other country, there would be no special consideration given to Quebec's unigue culture but rather, it would have to thrive or even exist on it's own merits as would be expected if indeed the uniqueness is worthy of survival. The state of Louisiana in the U.S of A. is living proof of this.

Your comment of "english eroding powers" being well documented is perhaps the wrong choice of words as the expansion of the english language in any country does nothing to erode "powers" merely the popularity of whatever language it is displacing.

Erosion of popularity of one language in favour of another is a fact of history and will continue as long as immigration, migration and birth culture continue to migrate. Witness the growth of Spanish in the U.S., with various languages from the mid-east in France and indeed the U.K.

Canada as well will have it's share of this happening in places like B.C. absorbing eastern asian citizens.

You may not like the word progress to describe this but nevertheless, it will happen regardless of all the discriminatory laws you put in place to attempt to stem the tide. You need not fear english in this century as much as the last as immigration will bring with it many challenges to ALL countries and the English language may be the least of them.

Were separation to become a reality; you may very well find that you ran from the henhouse straight into the fox's den.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,969 posts, read 28,496,200 times
Reputation: 9036
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
That's the very nature of my point exactly. You refer to the Anglo's in the same manner that would be used as a derogatory. Germany referring to the anglos is nothing new in regards to England but they do not feel the same towards either Canada or the U.S. of A. and this I know for fact.

You're attempting to bolster the traditional dislike by Quebecers of the predominantly english speaking ROC with the rather weak linking to the historical discord between Germany and Great Britain; the one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I was making the point that Quebecers of the "separatiste" stripe use any and every opportunity to behave arrogantly towards les-anglais of Canadian origin but will operate completely differently (even politely) towards english speakers from other countries. That disconnect is just further proof that Quebecers feel a special disdain against the ROC while ignoring the fact; were they affiliated with any other country, there would be no special consideration given to Quebec's unigue culture but rather, it would have to thrive or even exist on it's own merits as would be expected if indeed the uniqueness is worthy of survival.

Your comment of "english eroding powers" being well documented is perhaps the wrong choice of words as the expansion of the english language in any country does nothing to erode "powers" merely the popularity of whatever language it is displacing.

Erosion of popularity of one language in favour of another is a fact of history and will continue as long as immigration, migration and birth culture sonti ue to migrate. Witness the growth of Spanish in the U.S., with various languages from the mid-east in France and indeed the U.K.

Canada as well will have it's share of this happening in places like B.C. absorbing eastern asian citizens.

You may not like the word progress to describe this but nevertheless, it will happen regardless of all the discriminatory laws you put in place to attempt to stem the tide. You need not fear english in this century as much as the last as immigration will bring with it many challenges to ALL countries and the English language may be the least of them.

Were separation to become a reality; you may very well find that you ran from the henhouse straight into the fox's den.
I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure miqmaq's not even from Quebec!
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:25 PM
 
19,046 posts, read 10,918,733 times
Reputation: 14005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure miqmaq's not even from Quebec!
Aaah; I stand corrected using "you' to describe him/her as one of a disaffected group.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:30 PM
 
242 posts, read 447,174 times
Reputation: 233
Guys! Enough with this arguing. Quebec is a part of Canada, whether some like it or not. Yes I agree they do have a fiscal problem that must be solved BUT I admire Quebec and what they stand for. Many movements within Canada start in Quebec, and the population is not afraid to voice an opinion. Some Canadians should take a page out of that book, otherwise the government can step all over you. Now before I get accused of saying breaking windows and causing violence in the streets is a good thing... I am simply stating that standing up for what you believe in is never a bad thing.

I personally love Quebec, I enjoy visiting it and will continue to go back. No province in Canada is without their issues. People in Alberta all of a sudden have a sense of entitlement and arrogance because they were LUCKY enough to be sitting on a massive oil reserve. Now they want to kick Quebec out of the country because they are "stealing" their precious oil revenue. So in a sense, the attitude many Albertans accuse Quebec of having... Alberta has those same issues. We need to work on being a country... a diverse nation with two official languages.

As a person from Ontario my entire life, I want to change the theme of this sad thread by stating.. I love Quebec being a part of this country. It would make me incredibly sad to see them leave. I am proud to have them here in Canada.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:41 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,660,727 times
Reputation: 7613
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
I am simply stating that standing up for what you believe in is never a bad thing.
That's not necessarily true.
If such belief is completely selfish and utterly unreasonable and even damaging, standing by it will only do harm.

I believe every house and other goods should be free of charge. Should I be encouraged to stand up for it, or go to the street protesting?
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:29 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 46,704,219 times
Reputation: 11862
They want you to spell their demonym correctly.
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