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Old 08-22-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,008 posts, read 32,877,061 times
Reputation: 27546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrensmooth View Post
then why do those same items cost more in Canada..?..
Higher taxes and/or tariffs?

 
Old 08-22-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
51 posts, read 130,640 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Canada is NOT a better version of the US, that's for sure. Immigrating to Canada has always been easier than to the US, yet far more immigrants are interested in the US than Canada.


Most people want to move to the US, for economic/career reasons. The US provides far more career opportunities for highly skilled professional. It is not just about making more money, but also about fulfill one's potential.


Yes, life is not about work, but if all the young people are satisfied with a 9-5 routine job with no excitement and hardly many opportunities to stand out as "successful", this country would be hopeless.

I have talked about moving to Canada with some of my friends working in the US, and almost without except, the idea doesn't appeal to them whatsoever. The idea of moving to Canada while you are already in the US to many almost represents incompetence - that one can't survive in the US and has to go to Canada. This kind of view is quite prevelant among migrant workers in the US.

Downside of living in Canada
1) No where in Canada offers good weather. Chicago kind of weather which is absolutely horrible in American standards, is considered as warm and mild. And Chicago is actually warmer and receives less snow than Toronto.

2) few cities offer good job opportunities. basically only Toronto has a highly diversifed job market. The US has at least 10 metro areas bigger or similar to Toronto. My friends with biology background had to leave Canada because there is no job for them. have we heard of a CDN pharmaceutical company?

A friend of mine just moved to a small city in upstate NY from Toronto 6 months ago. He had a stable job from the government with good benefit and went for a small firm with less than 50 employees, much less vacation. Sounds stupid to many, but he believes the US economy will provide far more advancement opportunties for him in the future, and he hates the idea of being stuck at the slow paced job in Canada achieving nothing day after day. That's what has driven these people to leave. Stuff like healthcare, leisure are not important for motivated aspiring younge people.

3) much lower pay and much higher cost of living. No need to elaborate. Higher taxes, higher cost of all services. Even NYC is cheaper than Toronto/Vancouver put housing aside.

As to healthcare, Canada does have some advantages. However, if someone is confident enough to move to a more competitive America, he probably is able to secure equally good healthcare plan with his employer. It is much less a concern for younger and well educatied professionals.

To individuals, "overall quality of life" means absolutely nothing. What matters is MY quality of life, isn't it? And for those who made the efforts to move to the US and succeeded, usually they can achieve a higher quality of life south of the border.

Canada of course has its own advantages - we all know about it - and it is only good for certain groups of people, the less ambitous, less money-driven, those who prefer a stable life over excitement and risks. There is really no good or bad.

One thing I absolutely don't agree with is "Canada has a higher quality of life" or "Canada is just a US without its problems". In fact very few people believe in that in reality - much fewer Americans move to Canada vs Canadians moving to the US, and the US still attracts far more immigrants than Canada, despite it being much more difficult. Canada happens to work better for some and the US for the other.
I just had to attack these statements. They are posted as if they are fact and yet the person who wrote them seems to have just pulled them out of his/her arse. Let's clarify some things:

1) Victoria and the parts of British Columbia offer substantially better weather year-round than New York City, Chicago, Boston, and some years even Seattle and Portland. The weather in Victoria this year was +7 C in February and reached a high of +34 C in July and August. It only dropped below 0 C on one day in January.

2) 10 US cities are not larger than Toronto. In fact, Toronto, with 5.3 million, is the fifth largest city in North America (not including Mexico) after Chicago. Montreal, with 3.2 million, and Vancouver, with 2.1 million, are also thriving centres of commerce, arts and everything in between. Cities like Ottawa (1 million) and Calgary (nearly 1 million) are quickly becoming the same.

3) Studies show that the average household income in Canada is higher than in America, at $105,000 to $73,000. Considering the dollars are about on-par and income taxes are about the same depending on which state/province you live, and it pretty much shows that Canadians on average earn more. Canadians pay more tax when shopping, and prices for every day purchases are higher, but rents are about even (cities are pricey, small towns are cheap). Housing costs used to be higher in the states until the bubble popped in 2008.

The poster also goes on to state that Canada is a great place for people with no ambition and who don't like excitement, and that those who want success move to America. This is one of those ignorant American myths that have stuck. However, Canada has a large share of millionaires and a few billionaires, a thriving entertainment sector with home-grown rock stars and actors, a large gang problem (particularly biker gangs and Jamaican gangsters), a low-tax business-friendly free-for-all in places like Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, booming natural resources and all the tertiary businesses that brings, a mini Silicon Valley full of enterprising tech startups, etc etc etc.

I just wanted to clear up the absolutely 40-years-outdated ignorant claims of this yahoo. Cheers!
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,606 posts, read 11,101,173 times
Reputation: 10319
Quote:
Originally Posted by atethepaint View Post
I just had to attack these statements. They are posted as if they are fact and yet the person who wrote them seems to have just pulled them out of his/her arse. Let's clarify some things:

1) Victoria and the parts of British Columbia offer substantially better weather year-round than New York City, Chicago, Boston, and some years even Seattle and Portland.

2) 10 US cities are not larger than Toronto. In fact, Toronto, with 5.3 million, is the fifth largest city in North America (not including Mexico) after Chicago. Montreal, with 3.2 million, and Vancouver, with 2.1 million, are also thriving centres of commerce, arts and everything in between. Cities like Ottawa (1 million) and Calgary (nearly 1 million) are quickly becoming the same.

3) Studies show that the average household income in Canada is higher than in America, at $105,000 to $73,000. Considering the dollars are about on-par and income taxes are about the same depending on which state/province you live, and it pretty much shows that Canadians on average earn more. Canadians pay more tax when shopping, and prices for every day purchases are higher, but rents are about even (cities are pricey, small towns are cheap). Housing costs used to be higher in the states until the bubble popped in 2008.
1) Wake me when we get somewhere that competes with Miami, LA, Houston, or even Nashville

2) You can't compare populations. Texas and California have nearly the same population as all of Canada, each. Plus about the equal number of large cities.

3) This has been beaten to death but to quote Dean Wormer, there is a 0.0% chance that, when comparing apples to apples, economically things are more advantageous in Canada.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:19 PM
 
18,331 posts, read 10,407,207 times
Reputation: 13392
Quote:
Originally Posted by atethepaint View Post
I just had to attack these statements. They are posted as if they are fact and yet the person who wrote them seems to have just pulled them out of his/her arse. Let's clarify some things:

1) Victoria and the parts of British Columbia offer substantially better weather year-round than New York City, Chicago, Boston, and some years even Seattle and Portland. The weather in Victoria this year was +7 C in February and reached a high of +34 C in July and August. It only dropped below 0 C on one day in January.

2) 10 US cities are not larger than Toronto. In fact, Toronto, with 5.3 million, is the fifth largest city in North America (not including Mexico) after Chicago. Montreal, with 3.2 million, and Vancouver, with 2.1 million, are also thriving centres of commerce, arts and everything in between. Cities like Ottawa (1 million) and Calgary (nearly 1 million) are quickly becoming the same.

3) Studies show that the average household income in Canada is higher than in America, at $105,000 to $73,000. Considering the dollars are about on-par and income taxes are about the same depending on which state/province you live, and it pretty much shows that Canadians on average earn more. Canadians pay more tax when shopping, and prices for every day purchases are higher, but rents are about even (cities are pricey, small towns are cheap). Housing costs used to be higher in the states until the bubble popped in 2008.

The poster also goes on to state that Canada is a great place for people with no ambition and who don't like excitement, and that those who want success move to America. This is one of those ignorant American myths that have stuck. However, Canada has a large share of millionaires and a few billionaires, a thriving entertainment sector with home-grown rock stars and actors, a large gang problem (particularly biker gangs and Jamaican gangsters), a low-tax business-friendly free-for-all in places like Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, booming natural resources and all the tertiary businesses that brings, a mini Silicon Valley full of enterprising tech startups, etc etc etc.

I just wanted to clear up the absolutely 40-years-outdated ignorant claims of this yahoo. Cheers!
Nice try, but you're rebutting someone who doesn't particularly care for the facts.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
51 posts, read 130,640 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Canada is NOT a better version of the US, that's for sure. Immigrating to Canada has always been easier than to the US, yet far more immigrants are interested in the US than Canada.


Most people want to move to the US, for economic/career reasons. The US provides far more career opportunities for highly skilled professional. It is not just about making more money, but also about fulfill one's potential.


Yes, life is not about work, but if all the young people are satisfied with a 9-5 routine job with no excitement and hardly many opportunities to stand out as "successful", this country would be hopeless.

I have talked about moving to Canada with some of my friends working in the US, and almost without except, the idea doesn't appeal to them whatsoever. The idea of moving to Canada while you are already in the US to many almost represents incompetence - that one can't survive in the US and has to go to Canada. This kind of view is quite prevelant among migrant workers in the US.

Downside of living in Canada
1) No where in Canada offers good weather. Chicago kind of weather which is absolutely horrible in American standards, is considered as warm and mild. And Chicago is actually warmer and receives less snow than Toronto.

2) few cities offer good job opportunities. basically only Toronto has a highly diversifed job market. The US has at least 10 metro areas bigger or similar to Toronto. My friends with biology background had to leave Canada because there is no job for them. have we heard of a CDN pharmaceutical company?

A friend of mine just moved to a small city in upstate NY from Toronto 6 months ago. He had a stable job from the government with good benefit and went for a small firm with less than 50 employees, much less vacation. Sounds stupid to many, but he believes the US economy will provide far more advancement opportunties for him in the future, and he hates the idea of being stuck at the slow paced job in Canada achieving nothing day after day. That's what has driven these people to leave. Stuff like healthcare, leisure are not important for motivated aspiring younge people.

3) much lower pay and much higher cost of living. No need to elaborate. Higher taxes, higher cost of all services. Even NYC is cheaper than Toronto/Vancouver put housing aside.

As to healthcare, Canada does have some advantages. However, if someone is confident enough to move to a more competitive America, he probably is able to secure equally good healthcare plan with his employer. It is much less a concern for younger and well educatied professionals.

To individuals, "overall quality of life" means absolutely nothing. What matters is MY quality of life, isn't it? And for those who made the efforts to move to the US and succeeded, usually they can achieve a higher quality of life south of the border.

Canada of course has its own advantages - we all know about it - and it is only good for certain groups of people, the less ambitous, less money-driven, those who prefer a stable life over excitement and risks. There is really no good or bad.

One thing I absolutely don't agree with is "Canada has a higher quality of life" or "Canada is just a US without its problems". In fact very few people believe in that in reality - much fewer Americans move to Canada vs Canadians moving to the US, and the US still attracts far more immigrants than Canada, despite it being much more difficult. Canada happens to work better for some and the US for the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
1) Wake me when we get somewhere that competes with Miami, LA, Houston, or even Nashville

2) You can't compare populations. Texas and California have nearly the same population as all of Canada, each. Plus about the equal number of large cities.

3) This has been beaten to death but to quote Dean Wormer, there is a 0.0% chance that, when comparing apples to apples, economically things are more advantageous in Canada.
True, beaten to death, but always interesting.

Naturally places like Texas and California have infinitely superior weather. I was replying to the original statement that said that every place in Canada has crappy weather. This just isn't so. Comparing a Canadian city to one near the equator is like comparing apples and oranges.

Population-wise it is true that some US states beat out Canada, but you missed the point, and I'm just citing factual data. By population, Toronto is the fifth largest city after Chicago.

The 0.0% chance that things are more economically advantageous in Canada is one of those trumped-up "America is #1" myths. The dollars are on par so, like you said, let's compare apples to apples. Canada's employment rate is higher, people have higher household incomes in Canada, and Canadians have, on average, more spending power than Americans right now. Read this article :

For the First Time, Canadians Now Richer Than Americans - US News and World Report

or this one:

Oh, Canada! Americans' Northern Neighbors Are Now Richer - DailyFinance

or any other. It's fact. Opportunities for investment abound in Canada right now, something the US has been lacking for the past couple of years. I'm not saying the US is a poor country (despite the government running out of money); I'm just saying that the average Canadian, right now in history, is better off economically than the average American. This isn't a good thing, as I love America and the American people and I liked the world better when the greenback was worth more
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: London, UK
3,458 posts, read 4,015,683 times
Reputation: 2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by atethepaint View Post
Considering the dollars are about on-par and income taxes are about the same depending on which state/province you live
Could you please point me to where income taxes are the same between Canada and the US? And I am not referring to marginal tax rates I am focused on tax burden and the taxes people actually do pay during filing.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,606 posts, read 11,101,173 times
Reputation: 10319
Quote:
Originally Posted by atethepaint View Post
True, beaten to death, but always interesting.

Naturally places like Texas and California have infinitely superior weather. I was replying to the original statement that said that every place in Canada has crappy weather. This just isn't so. Comparing a Canadian city to one near the equator is like comparing apples and oranges.

Population-wise it is true that some US states beat out Canada, but you missed the point, and I'm just citing factual data. By population, Toronto is the fifth largest city after Chicago.

The 0.0% chance that things are more economically advantageous in Canada is one of those trumped-up "America is #1" myths. The dollars are on par so, like you said, let's compare apples to apples. Canada's employment rate is higher, people have higher household incomes in Canada, and Canadians have, on average, more spending power than Americans right now. Read this article :

For the First Time, Canadians Now Richer Than Americans - US News and World Report

or this one:

Oh, Canada! Americans' Northern Neighbors Are Now Richer - DailyFinance

or any other. It's fact. Opportunities for investment abound in Canada right now, something the US has been lacking for the past couple of years. I'm not saying the US is a poor country (despite the government running out of money); I'm just saying that the average Canadian, right now in history, is better off economically than the average American. This isn't a good thing, as I love America and the American people and I liked the world better when the greenback was worth more
Canadian weather does suck. Less in certain places, but it still isn't great.

Toronto is the fifth largest city in English N.A. but it's an outlier. Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic is #6 if you include latin north america. Does that mean that the DR provides similar economic opportunities to Canada? Of course not.

You can quote articles all you like, however I'm actually living it. You may make more, but you pay out way more. Compare tax freedom days. In Canada it is roughly mid-June. US, mid-April. That's before the overall savings on consumer goods.

Look, I'm a proud Canadian, but there are real and tangible reasons why it's better to be in the US. Reasons why Canada is better too, but climate and economics are at the top of my list.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
51 posts, read 130,640 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Canadian weather does suck. Less in certain places, but it still isn't great.

Toronto is the fifth largest city in English N.A. but it's an outlier. Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic is #6 if you include latin north america. Does that mean that the DR provides similar economic opportunities to Canada? Of course not.

You can quote articles all you like, however I'm actually living it. You may make more, but you pay out way more. Compare tax freedom days. In Canada it is roughly mid-June. US, mid-April. That's before the overall savings on consumer goods.

Look, I'm a proud Canadian, but there are real and tangible reasons why it's better to be in the US. Reasons why Canada is better too, but climate and economics are at the top of my list.
Fair enough. When talking city size I'm talking about English North America. Mexico City alone dwarfs anything in the US or Canada. The purpose of my comments wasn't to say that one is better than the other. I love both countries and enjoy all the unique things they have to offer. My purpose was to show that one posters comments just weren't correct.

As for tax burden, looking at the data I see that you are right. Canadians are over-burdened with taxes, unless you compare Alberta with Maine or California. When I see how little income tax Americans pay I can't help but get angry at our governments here north of the border....

Climate-wise, I stick to my guns. It is better to be in Victoria than it is Chicago or New York or even Seattle. SF and Dallas and Miami and even Tulsa are obviously much better, but because of the vast variations in climate in America, I honestly don't think one can compare the "Canadian" climates with the "American" ones. It's better to compare regions. If you don't like snow, don't move from British Columbia to Colorado.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,606 posts, read 11,101,173 times
Reputation: 10319
Quote:
Originally Posted by atethepaint View Post
Fair enough. When talking city size I'm talking about English North America. Mexico City alone dwarfs anything in the US or Canada. The purpose of my comments wasn't to say that one is better than the other. I love both countries and enjoy all the unique things they have to offer. My purpose was to show that one posters comments just weren't correct.

As for tax burden, looking at the data I see that you are right. Canadians are over-burdened with taxes, unless you compare Alberta with Maine or California. When I see how little income tax Americans pay I can't help but get angry at our governments here north of the border....

Climate-wise, I stick to my guns. It is better to be in Victoria than it is Chicago or New York or even Seattle. SF and Dallas and Miami and even Tulsa are obviously much better, but because of the vast variations in climate in America, I honestly don't think one can compare the "Canadian" climates with the "American" ones. It's better to compare regions. If you don't like snow, don't move from British Columbia to Colorado.
Agreed.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
51 posts, read 130,640 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsyzzurphands View Post
Could you please point me to where income taxes are the same between Canada and the US? And I am not referring to marginal tax rates I am focused on tax burden and the taxes people actually do pay during filing.
US Federal Taxes: 10% - 35%
US Lowest Tax-Bracket (before bumping to 25%): $8,500

Canadian Federal Taxes: 15% - 29%
Canadian Lowest Tax-Bracket (before bumping to 28%): $41,544

While Canadian tax-rates are slightly higher, the average middle-income earner in Canada pays slightly less tax than his/her counterpart in America due to the higher bottom tax bracket.

State and provincial taxes can, of course, make this formula more complicated. Most American states have lower taxes than Canadian provinces (10% in Nova Scotia compared to 5.8% in Massachusetts), but not always (0% in Alberta compared to 10.2% in New York).

Do Canadians Really Pay More Taxes Than Americans?

The taxes Americans really pay, in two graphs - The Washington Post

Just like everything in North America, it makes more sense to compare two regions than entire countries.
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