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Old 07-13-2012, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Canada
3,096 posts, read 2,593,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
Am I the only person who actually finds it a little bit disturbing? I mean being proud of your grandpa's medals is one thing, but that kind of procession seems um, I hate to say it but almost fascist in nature?
Umm. I'm a flat-out pacifist but I don't see anything fascist in people paying their respects by lining a bridge when a dead soldier passes by.

To the original question, I think the military is mostly ignored here. I only ever knew one person in my whole life who joined the military years and years ago. It's not something that any kid I've ever known has wanted to do as a form of vocation. It may be different in other parts of the country.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:19 AM
 
Location: The heart of Cascadia
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Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Umm. I'm a flat-out pacifist but I don't see anything fascist in people paying their respects by lining a bridge when a dead soldier passes by.
I am a pacifist too, but I guess it's just the numbers and the ceremony of it that seems fascist to me. This unconditional worship/respect for people just because they are willing to do the empire's dirty work. Don't get me wrong, it's sad when a NATO troop dies, but it's also sad when entire Middle Eastern villages are blown to bits.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Canada
3,096 posts, read 2,593,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
I am a pacifist too, but I guess it's just the numbers and the ceremony of it that seems fascist to me. This unconditional worship/respect for people just because they are willing to do the empire's dirty work. Don't get me wrong, it's sad when a NATO troop dies, but it's also sad when entire Middle Eastern villages are blown to bits.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the majority of those who who line the streets are doing anything other than honouring a dead soldier even if they don't approve of the war or soldiering. I haven't sensed anything about unconditional worship of the military here and I think of the soldiers as boys who didn't have a clue what war was actually like.

Again, just because I haven't seen a sense of worship doesn't mean it's not there but it would be news to me. It started quite spontaneously, I believe.
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:29 AM
 
Location: The heart of Cascadia
1,329 posts, read 1,228,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the majority of those who who line the streets are doing anything other than honouring a dead soldier even if they don't approve of the war or soldiering. I haven't sensed anything about unconditional worship of the military here and I think of the soldiers as boys who didn't have a clue what war was actually like.

Again, just because I haven't seen a sense of worship doesn't mean it's not there but it would be news to me. It started quite spontaneously, I believe.
True, they're just kids, I don't hate them or anything, but I still think that loving them for being warriors in a way is supporting war itself. I don't see how you can separate the two. I mean if we love them because they are human beings, and mourn their death because they are human beings, I understand that isn't supporting war, but loving them for fighting wars is supporting war, albeit indirectly. If a 20 year old kid died in a car accident, they wouldn't have a procession along the highway, the reason they get a procession is because people love them because they are fighting a war, even though they claim to be against the war.

I'm not saying we should spit on the troops like people in America did back in the 60s and 70s when they got home, but the fact even anti-war people make a point to honor warriors makes me feel that society has decided that war is necessary, it will never go away, and we should thus give up on trying to stop it and just honor the troops and keep on soldiering.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:47 AM
 
218 posts, read 211,636 times
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Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
True, they're just kids, I don't hate them or anything, but I still think that loving them for being warriors in a way is supporting war itself. I don't see how you can separate the two. I mean if we love them because they are human beings, and mourn their death because they are human beings, I understand that isn't supporting war, but loving them for fighting wars is supporting war, albeit indirectly. If a 20 year old kid died in a car accident, they wouldn't have a procession along the highway, the reason they get a procession is because people love them because they are fighting a war, even though they claim to be against the war.
Precisely! Why the hell should we encourage participating in wars that are, for the most part, avoidable? We should celebrate those who REFUSE to participate in war, not VOLUNTARY soldiers. I feel absolutely no respect whatsoever for veterans.

Quote:
I'm not saying we should spit on the troops like people in America did back in the 60s and 70s when they got home, but the fact even anti-war people make a point to honor warriors makes me feel that society has decided that war is necessary, it will never go away, and we should thus give up on trying to stop it and just honor the troops and keep on soldiering.
That was bad mainly because most soldiers were drafted. And even then, they should've just avoided the draft. If anything, Vietnam draft avoiders are the ones who deserve respect for not letting themselves be enslaved by the system.
I think it's a perfectly appropriate behavior for, say, Iraq or Afghanistan volunteers.
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:34 AM
 
Location: British Columbia, Canada
1,823 posts, read 1,778,208 times
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Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post

.... but the fact even anti-war people make a point to honor warriors makes me feel that society has decided that war is necessary, it will never go away, .....
Even clans of animals, birds, fish, insects and plants (and even minerals) commit acts of war upon each other. I'm not talking about killing just so they can eat each other (although they will do that too), I'm talking about committing acts of war where clans of one species or another will form bands to go on raids against others, conquer and take over their territory, take their food and resources, kill the males and either kill or take the females and young. War is a fact of ALL life, of conquest and survival of the fittest in all of nature. And just like all the rest of nature, there has never been a time in the existance of human-kind that there were not humans committing acts of war and conquest against other humans and where humans needed brave warriors to protect them from other warriors who were committing acts of war and conquest against them.

Hopefully a time will come when no humans will feel that war and conquest is necessary but I think that time is a long time coming and until that time comes warriors are a necessary thing even if it is only to serve as peace keepers for the clan and protectors against aggressors but not necessarily as aggressors themselves. So I think for the time being you should probably get used to it as a fact of your life too because war isn't going to go away any time soon and if you're a pacifist you need somebody to protect you from the bad guys, whoever the bad guys are that want to hurt you.

My mom and dad were not in the military in WW1 but they both served in the military in WW2. Mom wasn't in combat of course (she was with the WACS and was fore-woman in charge of a munitions factory in England), but dad was in combat at the front. They did not do it because they were aggressors who wanted to go to war and be warriors but because they felt it was their duty to defend and protect the clan from aggressors who were committing acts of war against the clan. I honour my parents' decisions that they made at that time and I honour and am proud of all those who serve and are willing to risk their lives to protect me and keep the peace for me against aggressors or events that would do me harm. That includes all the military forces -army, airforce and navy - all policemen, coast guard, border guard, and even search and rescue .... you name it.

So yeah, my attitude towards Canada's military is that I'm proud and supportive of them all and I honour them for their bravery and efforts.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 07-13-2012 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:41 AM
 
Location: WNY
831 posts, read 1,009,660 times
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Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
Interesting, I don't know if you'd ever see that kind of thing in America.
Patriot Guard Riders
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: The heart of Cascadia
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BTW I don't mean to sound like an a-hole or anything, I don't have anything against kids who join the army, I feel like they are being duped into fighting for an unworthy cause. If we really care about them we should change the system instead of lauding them for being a part of it.
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