Best city for blacks: Calgary or Edmonton? (neighborhood, live)

[stirtonm]

Originally Posted by jungeon

Its a myth ttaht canada is somehow less racist than the USA, as an african I can tell you that is simply not true. Racism here does not get reported in main stream media because it is so common place and overwhelming. Be prepared to be call f--ing N----a this and f---ing n---a that while walking down the street minding your business, be prepared to be called ghetto when you go to a job interview and be tolled you eat fried chicken and watermelon by your co-workers. B eprepared to face more racism than you have ever faced in your life and go back into a time machine into 1973.
Canada is a country that neevr talks about race relations and its not because its not racist, it because it is too racist to deal with the truth. And most of all be prepared to have no one deal with racism excep the human rights tribunal because your employer will tell you racism is all in you head even if your co worker spray painst fu-k nig--ers on your desk or go back to africa.
While a black person in Atalanta may experience next to no racism in comparision to a black person in idaho, a black person in Toronto will face just as much racism as a black person in foot bay or edmonton, its a country with a long racist history and closed its last segregated school in 1989 and ignores all the contributions of black people building this country.

Like the other response I read following your post, I would have to say you are living in the wrong town...Toronto was it? Last I heard about that place, it isn't just blacks who are discriminated against, everyone is discriminated, including whites who happen to live or work in areas which are predominantly another race, be it asian or middle eastern or black. This information being relayed from an associate who lives there. The road goes both ways, or multiple ways, depending on what racial demographic you hail from.

I doubt it is the standard of that town, perhaps the exception.

Calgary, that sort of thing is not tolerated, that work related crap you spoke of. I can guarantee you that anyone that tried that in my company, discriminate or use derogatory language would be fired on the spot, here, Edmonton, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto (all the burbs there), Ottawa....the list of cities goes to all the capitals and places of about 100K population across the country. There is ZERO tolerance towards that kind of crap where I work. Sexism, racism, age-ism, secularism...all taboo. If you don't like what your local boss has to say in such matters, there is always someone higher in the chain who will listen and bury the hatchet without hesitation.

Of the dozen or so black guys I personally know in the company, only one has experienced racist bull, and that was from some punk who was not worth the time to even give the time of day when he was going about his daily thing. I know more Asians who've had more issues with racism.

Not to minimalize your experiences, perhaps it might help you to take perspective in what happened in South Africa or Rwanda, or former Yugoslavia or Sri Lanka (the list goes on and on), the kinds of discrimination and persecution those people experienced and count yourself lucky that it was only name calling. Aside from those worthless toads who dissed you on the street, you have MANY means available for redress of those who choose to disciminate against you, both in work and domestic realms.

If you have a case which is provable, bring it up with a lawyer, don't let it fester. For every jerk who is in our society, there are 10 others who will not put up with that kind of bs, and treat you with respect.

[kaymcl]

Originally Posted by nickjbor

to clear up some mis-information:


some black canadians DO refer to themselvs as african-canadian. Others, oddly, as african-american.

being black in canada IS an issue, but then again so is being chinese, indian, afghani, or any kind of minority. It's just not an issue in the US sence of the word. In Canada, NY's new governor is blind. In the US, he's black.

most african-canadians are not carribean - many african-torontoinans (if such as term) are.

Toronto, especially North York, has "US level" black populations. Montreal has many, and parts of Nova Scotia (near the former Africville) do too. The rest of Canada does not.


Lastly, what are you looking for. "Black" culture? Because you wont find that outside Toronto, sadly.

Few black canadians do the hyphenated nonsense...However you are right...most west indian culture is in toronto and montreal...Vancouver does haev a decent sized community but the asians are the largest minority out there. BC is good in that it is a very liberal province.

[kaymcl]

Originally Posted by stirtonm

Like the other response I read following your post, I would have to say you are living in the wrong town...Toronto was it? Last I heard about that place, it isn't just blacks who are discriminated against, everyone is discriminated, including whites who happen to live or work in areas which are predominantly another race, be it asian or middle eastern or black. This information being relayed from an associate who lives there. The road goes both ways, or multiple ways, depending on what racial demographic you hail from.

I doubt it is the standard of that town, perhaps the exception.

Calgary, that sort of thing is not tolerated, that work related crap you spoke of. I can guarantee you that anyone that tried that in my company, discriminate or use derogatory language would be fired on the spot, here, Edmonton, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto (all the burbs there), Ottawa....the list of cities goes to all the capitals and places of about 100K population across the country. There is ZERO tolerance towards that kind of crap where I work. Sexism, racism, age-ism, secularism...all taboo. If you don't like what your local boss has to say in such matters, there is always someone higher in the chain who will listen and bury the hatchet without hesitation.

Of the dozen or so black guys I personally know in the company, only one has experienced racist bull, and that was from some punk who was not worth the time to even give the time of day when he was going about his daily thing. I know more Asians who've had more issues with racism.

Not to minimalize your experiences, perhaps it might help you to take perspective in what happened in South Africa or Rwanda, or former Yugoslavia or Sri Lanka (the list goes on and on), the kinds of discrimination and persecution those people experienced and count yourself lucky that it was only name calling. Aside from those worthless toads who dissed you on the street, you have MANY means available for redress of those who choose to disciminate against you, both in work and domestic realms.

If you have a case which is provable, bring it up with a lawyer, don't let it fester. For every jerk who is in our society, there are 10 others who will not put up with that kind of bs, and treat you with respect.

I have not had very bad racist experiences growin up in montreal...i did hear that calgary was a very racist place for blacks. A friend i had worked there and she was simply ignored and treated unfairly. You mentioned talking to a boss...that doenst usually work when they are in the same mindset as the workers. My friend went to her boss about the way her manager treated her and nothing happened. She would be told 'we are investigating the situation'. Anyhow there is no way i would take being called a name to my face....i found this persons story upsetting and shocking.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by ThroatGuzzler

Edmonton has a black population which had been established over a century ago during the underground railroad, i'd have to say there would be more acceptance in Edmonton.

I agree and actually, the Edmonton area had Blacks from Oklahoma and the Plains States come in the early 20th century. It was to the point that the Canadian government was trying to halt, if not stop the immigration from said people. Amber Valley is where many went to homestead. Very interesting history: Alberta: Home, Home on the Plains - Settlement : Black Settlers

Alberta's Black Pioneer Heritage - Organizations

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...ton/index.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...ary/index.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...one/index.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...l/junkins.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...l/campsie.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...ber/index.html

http://www.albertasource.ca/blackpio...maidstone.html

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by netwit

Wow. You sure have issues, don't you? Have you lived in all these cities from Toronto to Edmonton to Atlanta?

I have a Jamaican brother-in-law and biracial nieces and nephews. My brother-in-law doesn't feel he's ever experienced racism in Winnipeg (he's a laid-back, easy-going kind of guy). My nieces and nephews had to deal with some bullying but they can take care of themselves and it is not the norm - it has been mean kids in school who no doubt have their own issues at home and if it hadn't been the colour of their skin it would have been something else. Quickly solved with proactive parents and the Catholic school they attend.

I certainly wouldn't say there isn't racism in Canada, but from what I have seen it is directed at the First Nations, not blacks. That wouldn't be because Canadians are somehow better but rather that wherever there is a large visible minority, racism tends to concentrate itself on that group. In the west it is the First Nations. I do think that racism directed at blacks seems higher in Toronto/Montreal/Quebec.

I lived in Toronto have a bro in atlanta and done a brief stint down there for a short time. Yes those kids are not racist, kids are never racist, they do not have the capacity to be racist nor the experiences, their parents are racist and they act out on it as when you are a child your opnion=whatever the hell your parents tell you. I can't speak about winnipeg specifically as I have never lived there. I'd also acknowledge that white people from canada are less OPENLY racist than the largely non white immigrant toronto.

However the fact that you indicated to me your black bro in law has never experienced racism I can say either your lying or you do not know him enough that he felt confortable to tell you the truth about how he really felt discrriminated against, which does happen. i dont believe any black person in canada who claims not to be discriminated against unless they are a new immigrant coming from a black country who has never experienced racism and therefore does not understand what discrimination look like. I have friends from Ghana who say I never seen racism in Canada, 5months later that opnion quickly changed to canada is a racist country. When you call on the phone and there is an appartment but you show up and are black the appartments are suddenly full or it was a mistake, but when your white friend shows up they have appartment again you know something is funny.

Most schools are more interested in covering up racism because of fear of lawsuit

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by stirtonm

Like the other response I read following your post, I would have to say you are living in the wrong town...Toronto was it? Last I heard about that place, it isn't just blacks who are discriminated against, everyone is discriminated, including whites who happen to live or work in areas which are predominantly another race, be it asian or middle eastern or black. This information being relayed from an associate who lives there. The road goes both ways, or multiple ways, depending on what racial demographic you hail from.

I doubt it is the standard of that town, perhaps the exception.

Calgary, that sort of thing is not tolerated, that work related crap you spoke of. I can guarantee you that anyone that tried that in my company, discriminate or use derogatory language would be fired on the spot, here, Edmonton, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg, Regina, Toronto (all the burbs there), Ottawa....the list of cities goes to all the capitals and places of about 100K population across the country. There is ZERO tolerance towards that kind of crap where I work. Sexism, racism, age-ism, secularism...all taboo. If you don't like what your local boss has to say in such matters, there is always someone higher in the chain who will listen and bury the hatchet without hesitation.

Of the dozen or so black guys I personally know in the company, only one has experienced racist bull, and that was from some punk who was not worth the time to even give the time of day when he was going about his daily thing. I know more Asians who've had more issues with racism.

Not to minimalize your experiences, perhaps it might help you to take perspective in what happened in South Africa or Rwanda, or former Yugoslavia or Sri Lanka (the list goes on and on), the kinds of discrimination and persecution those people experienced and count yourself lucky that it was only name calling. Aside from those worthless toads who dissed you on the street, you have MANY means available for redress of those who choose to disciminate against you, both in work and domestic realms.

If you have a case which is provable, bring it up with a lawyer, don't let it fester. For every jerk who is in our society, there are 10 others who will not put up with that kind of bs, and treat you with respect.

Perhaps I am living in the wrong town, thats why I am moving soon as I can. I think it is the most racist city in north america. And yes you are right, discrimination goes by if you end up in the wrong side of town which is any part you are not the majority. Frankly I hate toronto, it has bunches of immigrants from india and china who are all seemingly racist and only want to hire their own, hang around their own and so on.

I would say whites also face discrimination, mostly exclusionary, not the name calling stuff. I will see a white guy by himself at lunch and all the asian and indian workers ignore him like he is non-existant. I have yet to see a white guy get hey cracker, or your the only cracker who works here. Or whats up cracker.

yes these rules about not tolerating racism exist in toronto but they are outright silly. In order for me to prove this, I have get one of the people discriminating against me to admit to it infornt of the employer. In other words, if 1 asian says hey f u black man go back to africa, and I complain the boss will call him in and say was anyone there. I will say yes his 5 chinese colleagues who were all laughing at me when he said it, he will call them and they will all say they never heard nothing, so guess who looks like the liar. Then when they do it to me when I am alone, it is my word vs theirs so it will be I don't know who is lying so I can't do anything.

I know if I was in a group with another person of a different race so me and any non chinese or non indian or pakistani, they would never dare say it.

Then you have the white guy who is left alone because he isn't chinese. Yet funny enough if 10 whites guys ignored the 1 chinese employe he would be a racist.

Not to mention what is really behind this. If an emplyer admits that they have a employee practicing racism, they become liable in a lawsuit, so the current practicie is to deny and hope that no one sues. Yes acually I am suing and have a lawyer and my prospects look good.

[netwit]

I know my BIL very well. I've known him for 15 years and I have no reason to lie, nor does he. That his experience is the exception to the rule is another story. I wouldn't doubt that at all. That is why I described his personality: he is one of those people racists use to explain they are not really racists because they "have a black friend."

But my BIL is not, like, the only black person I know, or of whose experiences I know. One of our best friends was a black PhD from Harvard. Grew up in NJ, has a brother in jail for murder. I would think he'd be well qualified to judge levels of racism in Manitoba vis a vis elsewhere. While he experienced racism at various points in time here, he certainly didn't experience the kind of racism you describe. All in all he got more social mileage out of being a black person in Manitoba then negative experiences, as he would tell you himself if he were alive. Which is not to say that the incidents he experienced didn't hurt him.


As far as my nieces and nephews and their difficulty, it was more a case of a boy who happened to be white and who happened to be beaten by his father on a regular basis and so passed the beating along verbally. He might as well have kicked a dog or his little brother. He was that kind of kid. If it hadn't been for colour, it would have been making fun of their names, their height or their clothes.

It turned out to be race. In this instance. I have no doubt they will experience racist attitudes in their lives. They will always be judged not by their white half but by their black half. I do the best I can in terms of buying them books on black cultures the world over but there is only so much anyone can do to protect children against that kind of ignorance and hurt.

Nonetheless, racism against blacks is rare here. If you reread my post, you'll see I make no claims that racism does not exist but what you have described, I have seen only in terms of First Nations. (and I am not saying that being racist against natives is somehow better than being racist against blacks).

It is only recently that Wpg has attracted more of a black population from the war-torn parts of Africa. And recently, these young African men have been recruited into gangs here, a double tragedy since some of them were child soldiers. Given the increase in the black population here, I have no doubt that racism against blacks will also rise.

I also agree with you that reporting racism does not necessarily put an end to it, no matter what the law is. To be silent when witnessing racism is to be complicit with it.

I am very sorry for your experiences in TO. Perhaps one day you'll care to share more with us regarding your country of origin and background. Telling stories about ourselves can be a good thing: you never know who it will reach and who it will change for the better.

[Fred Derf]

Originally Posted by jungeon

Perhaps I am living in the wrong town, thats why I am moving soon as I can. I think it is the most racist city in north america. And yes you are right, discrimination goes by if you end up in the wrong side of town which is any part you are not the majority. Frankly I hate toronto, it has bunches of immigrants from india and china who are all seemingly racist and only want to hire their own, hang around their own and so on.

I would say whites also face discrimination, mostly exclusionary, not the name calling stuff. I will see a white guy by himself at lunch and all the asian and indian workers ignore him like he is non-existant. I have yet to see a white guy get hey cracker, or your the only cracker who works here. Or whats up cracker.

yes these rules about not tolerating racism exist in toronto but they are outright silly. In order for me to prove this, I have get one of the people discriminating against me to admit to it infornt of the employer. In other words, if 1 asian says hey f u black man go back to africa, and I complain the boss will call him in and say was anyone there. I will say yes his 5 chinese colleagues who were all laughing at me when he said it, he will call them and they will all say they never heard nothing, so guess who looks like the liar. Then when they do it to me when I am alone, it is my word vs theirs so it will be I don't know who is lying so I can't do anything.

I know if I was in a group with another person of a different race so me and any non chinese or non indian or pakistani, they would never dare say it.

Then you have the white guy who is left alone because he isn't chinese. Yet funny enough if 10 whites guys ignored the 1 chinese employe he would be a racist.

Not to mention what is really behind this. If an emplyer admits that they have a employee practicing racism, they become liable in a lawsuit, so the current practicie is to deny and hope that no one sues. Yes acually I am suing and have a lawyer and my prospects look good.

First of all, cracker has almost no meaning here in Toronto. I had never heard of it before I went on various forums that included people from Florida or Georgia. The most prevalent term used to refer to whites (most specifically anglo-saxons) is "caker". The "Rent-A-Goalie" TV show has the main (white) character with the nickname "cake" for this reason. It comes from Italians referring to anglo-saxons as "Those who eat cake" although, from my personal experiences, it was widely used by Greeks as well (but that was because my high school had a heavy Greek influence).

I think that Toronto is pretty good for racial diversity and tolerance. Certainly the elementary school kids don't care who they play with and the school do a fairly good job at encouraging multiculturalism and diversity. In high school it was common to hear racial slurs but it was always from one friend to another. I can remember one incident that I thought was sure to turn into a fight when a big Chinese guy walks up to a group of blacks and addresses one using f-bombs and the n-word demanding his $20. It turns out that he bought the concert ticket for them to go together but some of the guys in the background were doing the whole "WTF?" thing. That's just high school though, people like to push boundaries. In that particular incident there was no malice and those two commonly exchanged racial slurs in both directions. Presumably one of those "take ownership" things. That was a long time ago though.

It does depend where you live in Toronto. I wouldn't expect things to be as tolerant in Scarborough as they would be in the city. More educated people are usually more tolerant.

In terms of appointments, it can depend on how you dress as well. A white guy who shows up in hiphop clothing may not get the apartment either. That may still be stereotyping and prejudicial but somehow not as wrong either. I'm not saying that was the case with the experiences that you know about but people who rent are always trying to avoid trouble and a single mom white girl may be as much of a red-flag as a single mom black girl.

[bigballa23]

This is a stupid question you know you can just look it up and see which city got more blacks

[Astrogirl26]

I could be generalizing but I don't think the racial tension/segregation against black people is as prominent in Canada than the US. I have grown up and live in Edmonton, and although there is not a large black population I have never seen any openly racist behavior towards them. I have had several black friends and I just see them as people, not by their race. Again, I could be generalizing, but from my experience people in Canada tend to think less in terms of race and see people just a s people. Far more tolerant of diversity IMO.

With that said, I wouldn't make my decision based on race. If you are going to school I would pick the City that has the best school for what you want to do. UofA as a whole is a better university than UofC (although I am sure for some faculties UofC is better). As for the technical and colleges in the area it probably really depends on the area of your study.

In regards to jobs when you grduate I wouldn't worry so much. To move from Edmonton to Calgary or vice versa for work once you graduate is common and no biggie.