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Ignoring the fact none of these jobs require more than a year of school, they are not stressful jobs.
The remoteness of the work, and the overtime may be. But the actual jobs themselves are not stressful.
I seriously question what work experience you have if this isn't automatically obvious.
Working with people is highly stressful, unless your in management which usually pays through the roof, your not gonna find anywhere near the same level of stress in these types of jobs.
Also considering the rate that these workers are addicted to hard drugs, alone suggests that the requirements are very different.
I have actually worked as an epidemiologist studying occupational fatalities and injuries (in the U.S.) under the National Institute of Occupational Health and Safety. I worked in a state in which mining and farming were major industries and
the most dangerous occupation was farming, followed by mining.
I don't know about the stress level of jobs in mining, lumber industry etc, but they are dangerous. Working with heavy equipment is dangerous. Like I said there are an average of 5 occupational fatalities in Canada every day and they are mostly in those areas.
Are Canadian teachers the highest paid in the world?
OECD - Education Key Tables 2012
Select countries / Salary at 15 years / Salary at Maximum
Australia: $48,233 / $48,233
Canada: $78,055 (Step 6 of 10) / $94,707
England: $47,047 / $47,047
Germany: $68,619 / $77,628
Japan: $49,408 / $64,135
Mexico: $25,905 / $42,621
USA: $47,977 / $54,666
Note: Figures in US dollars
It annoys me to no end when people manipulate numbers to make them prove their point. All numbers above EXCEPT CANADA'S are from OECD report 2012-1, and someone (you? you didn't provide a link) filled them in with salaries from the Toronto District School Board, to make them look like they're the same across Canada.
Here is a simple apples-to-apples comparison with OECD report 2012-2 which does have Canada:
Australia: $47,445 / $47,445
Canada: $55,191 / $55,191
England: $44,145 / $44,145
Germany: $66,895 / $76,433
Japan: $44,788 / $58,075
Mexico (missing in 2012-2, can't believe it was on the list in the first place)
USA: $48,446 / $55,199
but hey, Indonesia pays its secondary school teachers less than $3,000 per year so maybe teachers in Canada ARE overpaid.
It annoys me to no end when people manipulate numbers to make them prove their point. All numbers above EXCEPT CANADA'S are from OECD report 2012-1, and someone (you? you didn't provide a link) filled them in with salaries from the Toronto District School Board, to make them look like they're the same across Canada.
Here is a simple apples-to-apples comparison with OECD report 2012-2 which does have Canada:
Australia: $47,445 / $47,445
Canada: $55,191 / $55,191
England: $44,145 / $44,145
Germany: $66,895 / $76,433
Japan: $44,788 / $58,075
Mexico (missing in 2012-2, can't believe it was on the list in the first place)
USA: $48,446 / $55,199
but hey, Indonesia pays its secondary school teachers less than $3,000 per year so maybe teachers in Canada ARE overpaid.
I stand corrected, I didn't know that it was comparing apples to oranges. I cut and pasted from a comment made in response to this article. :
"The OECD also calculated the salary per hour of teaching time after fifteen years of experience. The OECD average is $49 for primary teachers, and $65 for secondary. In the U.S., the figures are much lower, at $41 and $46 respectively. The Canadian figures? For elementary teachers $68 an hour, and for secondary $74."
"The OECD also calculated the salary per hour of teaching time after fifteen years of experience. The OECD average is $49 for primary teachers, and $65 for secondary. In the U.S., the figures are much lower, at $41 and $46 respectively. The Canadian figures? For elementary teachers $68 an hour, and for secondary $74."
Sure. Canadian teachers make more money than US teachers, that's a well-known fact. I hope you're not suggesting we should emulate the US public schools system as a whole. Regarding the OECD average -- OECD is comprised of countries with wildly variable standards of living and teacher pay is heavily correlated with GDP per capita. As someone who reportedly holds a PhD, you can take a look at the numbers I provided in my previous post to convince yourself of that, or you can stand by the broad-brush ideological line of thinking that "all public servants are overpaid in Canada". My opinion is that this latter stance is unworthy of your formal education but that's really none of my business.
Sure. Canadian teachers make more money than US teachers, that's a well-known fact. I hope you're not suggesting we should emulate the US public schools system as a whole. Regarding the OECD average -- OECD is comprised of countries with wildly variable standards of living and teacher pay is heavily correlated with GDP per capita. As someone who reportedly holds a PhD, you can take a look at the numbers I provided in my previous post to convince yourself of that, or you can stand by the broad-brush ideological line of thinking that "all public servants are overpaid in Canada". My opinion is that this latter stance is unworthy of your formal education but that's really none of my business.
According to the OECD data you linked to, Canadian teachers reach their maximum salary after a mere 11 years. Whereas in Switzerland for example, which also pays its teachers generously it takes 27 years to reach maximum salary. In what other field do you achieve the highest level of seniority after just 11 years? My understanding is that there is a skewed distribution of teachers in Canada, with many high-salaries senior teachers holding the majority of the positions, and very few entry level teachers.
Canada has more per capita government debt than the U.S. and one of the ways we could reduce that debt is the size and cost of the public servant labor pool.
There are different methods for calculating it, but The Economist reports that Canada's public debt (federal, provincial and municipal) is $1.2-trillion (or 82 per cent of GDP). The magazine puts Canada's per capita debt at $36,990 - a full $10,000 more than the comparable debt in the United States.
According to the OECD data you linked to, Canadian teachers reach their maximum salary after a mere 11 years. Whereas in Switzerland for example, which also pays its teachers generously it takes 27 years to reach maximum salary. In what other field do you achieve the highest level of seniority after just 11 years? My understanding is that there is a skewed distribution of teachers in Canada, with many high-salaries senior teachers holding the majority of the positions, and very few entry level teachers.
This is a straw man argument; "are salaries too high?" isn't the same thing as "do people reach the top too quickly?". I don't think I have much of an opinion on the latter and you may be right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint
Canada has more per capita government debt than the U.S. and one of the ways we could reduce that debt is the size and cost of the public servant labor pool.
There are different methods for calculating it, but The Economist reports that Canada's public debt (federal, provincial and municipal) is $1.2-trillion (or 82 per cent of GDP). The magazine puts Canada's per capita debt at $36,990 - a full $10,000 more than the comparable debt in the United States.
It depends on the method and numbers used indeed, as the IMF puts US debt at a much higher level than Canada (~103% of GDP for the US vs. ~85% for Canada). Regardless, I think it's fairly clear to most native Canadians (at least it's my opinion) that (a) the level of public spending is an issue and (b) if we emulated US fiscal policy we would very likely create a lot more problems than we'd solve.
But this is still pretty far from my original point, which is: please stop using Ontario data and try to make it a Canada problem. Both salaries and cost of living are a lot higher in Ontario, especially in the GTA.
I have actually worked as an epidemiologist studying occupational fatalities and injuries (in the U.S.) under the National Institute of Occupational Health and Safety. I worked in a state in which mining and farming were major industries and
the most dangerous occupation was farming, followed by mining.
I don't know about the stress level of jobs in mining, lumber industry etc, but they are dangerous. Working with heavy equipment is dangerous. Like I said there are an average of 5 occupational fatalities in Canada every day and they are mostly in those areas.
I'm not sure what you mean about the drugs.
While I have no idea about the states in canada drug use is extensive in the big 5. Your not gonna see that in education. And unless you yourself have done large amounts of drugs I'm not starting that debate.
A dangerous job does not mean stressful in relative to what you get in education.
Well teachers in Ontario at least could be paid less and still be good teachers. We don't need to pay grade-school teachers $97,000 for working 9 months of the year--that's ridiculous. Why are you Canadians so eager to part with your money?
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