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Old 12-13-2012, 01:31 AM
 
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Just curious. Are there any Canadian or other Citizens of Commonwealth countries that dislike britain and/or their royalty? Not so sure about Canada, but I'm pretty sure OZ and NZ are pretty loyal to britain and the british crown. I'm interested to know Canadian's and other Commonwealth citizens take on this. Also because I hope to immigrate to Canada eventually from the states, but I don't like commonwealth.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipod99 View Post
Just curious. Are there any Canadian or other Citizens of Commonwealth countries that dislike britain and/or their royalty? Not so sure about Canada, but I'm pretty sure OZ and NZ are pretty loyal to britain and the british crown. I'm interested to know Canadian's and other Commonwealth citizens take on this. Also because I hope to immigrate to Canada eventually from the states, but I don't like commonwealth.
The Commonwealth and the Monarchy are two separate issues, there are quite a few members of the Commonwealth who aren't constitutional Monarchies under the British Crown, like India, Pakistan etc.

As to the Commonwealth, it is looked upon favourably everywhere. It's a loose association of sovereign states with shared political systems who work together. Few people throughout the Commonwealth have beef with it, it's great to have these connections which smooth international cooperation.

As to the Monarchy, it's viewed less favourably in Australia because they've historically been more in the shadow of Britain and have struggled to differentiate themselves from the Motherland, and sort of react against the Queen as a way to set themselves apart and assert Australian nationalism. In Canada, the Monarchy is much less controversial. We feel less of a connection to Britain so have less of a strong need to assert ourselves as something other than Brits, if anything throughout our whole history we've struggled against being absorbed by the US so the Monarchy is an innocuous reminder of our history. The Monarchy is a constitutionally useful old anachronism that nobody really cares enough about to get worked up over. There's just too many other issues people care more about that nobody tries to do away with the Monarchy. They're too far away and have too little power for anyone to care about them, despite the archaic nature of the institution. Opinion is diverse, but on the whole English Canada is somewhat fond of having the Monarchy and French Canada has a bit more distaste for the idea, but on the whole everyone's too apathetic and the Queen is a very well respected individual that nobody dislikes enough to get rid of even if they don't agree with the general idea of her position. If we had another Monarch maybe anti-Monarchist sentiment would be higher.

As for disliking Britain, that wouldn't be connected to the Monarchy or Commonwealth either. I don't think Canadians of any stripe dislike the countries that make up the UK. They're fine, decent people on the whole, not obnoxious, they make good immigrants and the role their country plays in the world is largely positive. We've always been allies with Britain and we hold the relationship in high esteem. It's great having such a close ally, and unlike the US we don't sometimes feel overwhelmed and bullied by their agenda, it's a more of egalitarian relationship because they're smaller, and they do things like let us use their embassies in countries where we don't have one. So, yeah, it's a legit relationship with very few grievances.

Last edited by BIMBAM; 12-13-2012 at 03:15 AM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:56 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
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Excellent post Bimbam.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ipod99 View Post

....... I hope to immigrate to Canada eventually from the states, but I don't like commonwealth.
Why? What does commonwealth mean to you that causes you to dislike it?

Do you know what the Commonwealth of Nations is and about the 54 countries that are members of it?
Member states of the Commonwealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is it the Commonwealth of Nations that you're against, or is it the British royal family and the British monarch that you don't like, or do you just not like the idea of a sovereign state being a commonwealth?

Aside from the Commonwealth of Nations, and aside from Canada being a sovereign state monarchy with its own monarch who also happens to be a monarch seperately of 15 other countries as well, Canada on its own all by its little own self is a commonwealth. If you hope to immigrate to Canada you better get used to commonwealth because the nation and its people are a commonwealth.

For that matter, so are some of the states in USA and a couple of US territories - namely Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia and Puerto Rico and the Northern Mariana Islands - they are commonwealth states and territories.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 12-13-2012 at 03:07 AM..
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:15 AM
 
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Ditto to everything Bimbam said.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
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Many Canadians say that one of our most common traditions is that we are "Not Americans ".

To explain..... Being invaded twice, by the Americans, and having to be constantly "On Guard " against American plans to annex us, we treasure our British history, and traditions, here.

One only has to look at our national symbols, to see that we continue to honour and respect our history.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Royal Canadian Regiment, the Royal Canadian Air Force,, you get the idea.

In our courts, the case is The Crown versus James Blow, the accused. The prosecutor is the Crown Attorney, the Judge sits in a Crown Court. Land owned by the Government is called "crown land".

America rejected life under the British Crown, we didn't.

Jim B

Toronto.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post

As for disliking Britain, that wouldn't be connected to the Monarchy or Commonwealth either. I don't think Canadians of any stripe dislike the countries that make up the UK. They're fine, decent people on the whole, not obnoxious, they make good immigrants and the role their country plays in the world is largely positive. We've always been allies with Britain and we hold the relationship in high esteem. It's great having such a close ally, and unlike the US we don't sometimes feel overwhelmed and bullied by their agenda, it's a more of egalitarian relationship because they're smaller, and they do things like let us use their embassies in countries where we don't have one. So, yeah, it's a legit relationship with very few grievances.
The role is largely positive? If you look at history, the country called the UK probably has done more damage and left more harm to the rest of the world, especially developing countries, than anyone else. It is no less aggressive than the US whatsoever. It invaded, colonized and carved numerous countries as it felt like to, in Asia, middle east and Africa. So many countries remain separated till today thanks to the UK. I guess for Canadians, those countries simply don't count and their sufferings are meaningless as long as it doesn't affect the well-being of Canada. So let's stop pretending it is some sort of peace seeking country which generally had a positive influence on the globe. Canadians take its history lightly only because, well, the two countries have the same roots and the UK did little harm to Canada itself.

In determining UK's role in international affairs, you can't simply avoid talking about its aggressive history elsewhere. And in judging its role, you can't simply view it from the perspective of Canada, or the West. You have to view it objectively as if you yourself don't have a nationality.

Now the UK is facing the possibility of its own breaking-up, and probably it will realize the pain it has repeatedly imposed on other nations a century ago.

Nowadays it becomes a lower profiled country only because it has been declining in relative strength, not because it suddenly becomes a peace seeking country. Plus, it is not like the UK is not actively meddling other nations' business any more (under various nice excuses of course).

the role their country plays in the world is largely positive. ? When you talk about the "world", you mean western countries, right?
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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I also agree with what has been said here.

On the monarchy, people don't think or talk about it much, but if push came to shove most English-speaking Canadians would probably opt to keep it (as a distinguishing characteristic from the U.S.) and most French-speaking Canadians would want to ditch it. Which explains why we talk about it as little as possible!

As for the British people in general, the feelings in Canada range from positive to neutral in Anglo-Canada, and largely neutral in French-speaking Canada. Not much true hostility. Certainly there is nothing in Canada like what you have in Australia, where you have the whole "bloody POM!" thing going on that is sometimes in jest, but sometimes more serious.

Rightly or wrongly, Canadians unlike Australians don't feel like the UK has always meddled in their affairs, and don't feel their country has been swamped with scores of pompous British immigrants who think they know better about everything and anything.

Strangely enough, an equivalent to the Aussie "bloody POM" thing did historically exist in Quebec with respect to people from France, and was known as "maudit Français".
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

Rightly or wrongly, Canadians unlike Australians don't feel like the UK has always meddled in their affairs, and don't feel their country has been swamped with scores of pompous British immigrants who think they know better about everything and anything.
Well, the US has done the job. UK being one of the minions of the US, of course doesn't get to tell what Canada, America's closest neighbour, should do.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:16 AM
 
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The word "Commonwealth" has no meaning in its context as "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" or "Commonwealth of Puerto Rico." It's a philosophical title that means the same thing as a republic. The idea is that the government exists for the common wealth, or common benefit, of the people. There's no practical difference between Pennsylvania calling itself a commonwealth, and New York calling itself a state. Canada isn't officially called a commonwealth. It's a confederation of provinces and it was originally called the Dominion of Canada (because it was a British dominion).
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,489,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The role is largely positive? If you look at history, the country called the UK probably has done more damage and left more harm to the rest of the world, especially developing countries, than anyone else. It is no less aggressive than the US whatsoever. It invaded, colonized and carved numerous countries as it felt like to, in Asia, middle east and Africa. So many countries remain separated till today thanks to the UK. I guess for Canadians, those countries simply don't count and their sufferings are meaningless as long as it doesn't affect the well-being of Canada. So let's stop pretending it is some sort of peace seeking country which generally had a positive influence on the globe. Canadians take its history lightly only because, well, the two countries have the same roots and the UK did little harm to Canada itself.

In determining UK's role in international affairs, you can't simply avoid talking about its aggressive history elsewhere. And in judging its role, you can't simply view it from the perspective of Canada, or the West. You have to view it objectively as if you yourself don't have a nationality.

Now the UK is facing the possibility of its own breaking-up, and probably it will realize the pain it has repeatedly imposed on other nations a century ago.

Nowadays it becomes a lower profiled country only because it has been declining in relative strength, not because it suddenly becomes a peace seeking country. Plus, it is not like the UK is not actively meddling other nations' business any more (under various nice excuses of course).

the role their country plays in the world is largely positive. ? When you talk about the "world", you mean western countries, right?
Oh shove it, you don't know me. I'm full aware of what a barbaric and horrible institution the British Empire was, my grandparents are Indians and were Ghandists who participated in the independence struggle. I know all about the awful legacy of the British Empire in this world, but am also realistic about where it got things right compared to the actions of some of the other European colonial empires of the time. My comment was that we don't have beef with Britain because they play a largely positive role in the world, an ahistorical term. The empire's been dead for ages now and the UK engages with the whole world and is a law abiding, regular country in the community of earth's nations, thus we aren't upset with them in Canada. They produce innovation the whole world uses, doesn't exploit third world immigrant labour like the UAE does, they give foreign aid, and they educate tons of the world's scholars, skills those people bring back to their countries. They have understandable and not totally out to lunch foreign policies and aren't an outrageous group so yeah, Canadians aren't generally angry at the modern UK. History is irrelevant, as are musings about what would be if the situation was different. It's the same reason we have good relations with Germany and ignore its history, because people can and should move on.
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