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View Poll Results: Would you move from Vancouver to Seattle if you could live in both Canada and the US without any res
Yes 38 55.07%
No 31 44.93%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-15-2013, 10:18 AM
 
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I see many threads/posts on both Vancouver and Seattle forum about how much "better" Seattle is than Vancouver, some people arguing that (most) Vancouverites are stuck in Vancouver because they have nowher else to go and if given a choice, Vancouverites would happily leave Vancouver and move to Seattle, mainly because of lack of career opportunities and to escape high cost of living in Vancouver, but also because of other factors that favour Seattle over Vancouver.

As a result, I decided to start a new thread (with a poll) to see how many Vancouverites, people who actually live in Vancouver, would really leave Vancouver for Seattle for whatever reasons if they had the opportunity to live in either place.

I personally think that, considering all factors, Vancouver is a better place to live than Seattle.

Please vote only if you are a Vancouver resident or a former resident who left Vancouver for Seattle.

Last edited by movingwiththewind; 05-15-2013 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Canada
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No, I wouldn't actually leave Vancouver for Seattle if I could. I like Seattle alot and visit often, but frankly it's a foreign country and when I spend time there I enjoy it but am always happy to get back to Canada, where I feel more comfortable and at home.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Oakville, ON
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Depends. If I were younger and single, I think the lifestyle and urban environment of Vancouver is much more appealling.

If I'm raising a family, buying a house, having a real career etc, I think Seattle, in particular it's east side suburbs (Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland) are much more appealing than any of Vancouver's suburbs.

That said, if I were going to go through the trouble of immigrating, I would also want a significant upgrade in climate and would probably favour going even further south like SF.
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberated in TO View Post

That said, if I were going to go through the trouble of immigrating, I would also want a significant upgrade in climate and would probably favour going even further south like SF.

Exactly....if you get a fully fledged green card you have many other choices besides Seattle (and with better climate)


Seattle, when everything is considered, still beats the snout out of Vancouver (in my opinion) but if you can live in Seattle legally and free of employer ties, you can go anywhere else in the US
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,492 posts, read 15,360,364 times
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I'm a downtown kind of guy, so my answer in part reflects that, since on a certain level in Canada and the U.S. a burb is a burb, pretty much all the same. Mall, park, houses. For me boring.
Seattle's downtown is improving for residents, but it's nothing like the density of residential buildings in downtown Vancouver. Many first timers to Vancouver are surprised to find how green the west end is and how liveable. Everything I need from beaches to major parks, mountains, stores, restaurants, pubs, an amazing seawall, etc are all within walking distance if not right outside my door. You can survive quite easily without a car. ( even though I have one )
The major reason though is Seattle is in the U.S. I love to visit the US have family and friends there etc, but I could never become a full-time resident. It's everything from politics to healthcare that is part of that choice.
I feel we just have a better quality of life in Canada.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
It's everything from politics to healthcare that is part of that choice.
Do you think politics is any better in Canada?? If anything is even more boneheaded than here.....

Healthcare could be a problem for some people (the really poor are taken care of and the high skilled will always have a job and coverage) but Obamacare is somewhat improving the people that are in the middle....
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,492 posts, read 15,360,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Do you think politics is any better in Canada?? If anything is even more boneheaded than here.....

Healthcare could be a problem for some people (the really poor are taken care of and the high skilled will always have a job and coverage) but Obamacare is somewhat improving the people that are in the middle....
Politics in Canada are not the same. We have moved beyond the debates on abortion, equal marriage, universal healthcare and gun control. ( although these subjects are still talked about ). I'm not saying I'm happy with politics in Canada, I'm just saying it's less extreme and intense as in the U.S.

As for healthcare in the U.S. I have had personal experience with friends down there.
The poor do not get free healthcare. What they do get, if they live in an centre large enough, a free medical clinic to do the basics. If they end up in emergency or need long term care, they are billed. Here is an answer from an American " do the poor get free healthcare in the U.S. "

"The idea that you can get free health care at an emergency room is a myth. If you show up at an ER with a serious problem that needs immediate attention they can't turn you away if you have no insurance or ability to pay (at least if that hospital gets federal grant money). But after they send you home they will bill you. If you don't pay after a certain amount of time the bill gets sent to a collection agency, and they will dun and harass you pretty much forever. Since you can't get out of an ER with a bill less than a couple grand, even for a relatively minor injury, most poor people won't be able to pay (unless they qualify for Medicaid, which these days is hardly anybody). And if you had something serious, like a heart attack, you're looking at a minimum of $20K. Unless you're pretty well-off (in which case you probably would have had insurance anyhow), this will send you into bankruptcy. To the extent the hospital doesn't ever get paid because the patient is broke and/or bankrupt, everybody else's medical bills and insurance premiums go up.

And then there's the fact that an ER will only handle serious or life-threatening conditions. Once you're stabilized and not at risk of croaking on their gurney, they send you home; you can't get treatment for chronic conditions or for follow-up care for the condition that brought you to the ER in the first place. So if you have no money and no insurance you don't get any medical care until you're so sick that you have to go back to the ER, at great and unnecessary expense for everyone concerned.

ER treatment is never free. For anybody.



Another aspect is the dealing with private insurers. Many find even after spending thousands a year on premiums are still billed for doctor visits and a myriad of other charges, not to mention the endless back and forth or dealing with them over what is covered and what is not. Exhausting and stressful if one is ill.
Just Google the horror stories that many Americans go through with this. Why do you think healthcare is such a hot topic down there?

Friends of my parents in California had this happen to them. Worked all their lives and had healthcare coverage. This was in the 1990's. Wife got cancer. Insurance premiums went up since like any insurance once you start using it you become a higher risk so they charge you more. Premiums went up past their income. Couldn't go on state care since they had assets. Sold their house, spent their savings etc until they were declared eligible for some state care. Wife dies. Husband left with nothing.
Ya, great system.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:22 PM
 
3,861 posts, read 3,236,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Politics in Canada are not the same. We have moved beyond the debates on abortion, equal marriage, universal healthcare and gun control. ( although these subjects are still talked about ). I'm not saying I'm happy with politics in Canada, I'm just saying it's less extreme and intense as in the U.S.
Same sex marriage and abortion are pretty much universally accepted by the mainstream population here (maybe except is some deep south pockets)....the rest is some surviving noise from discredited conservative politicians and withering down day by day (the GOP has largely accepted same sex marriage)...

On gun control, luckily we have the right to bear arms here and the recent initiative at limiting that right died off and deservely so....

Quote:
As for healthcare in the U.S. I have had personal experience with friends down there.
The poor do not get free healthcare.
They do and is called Medicaid...if they bother to enroll......and some states are even more generous than others and have additional programs (some programs for the poor in California cover even dental where low income people above the Medicaid threshold income often cannot afford that coverage)

If you are poor nobody can bill you because by definition, you do not have assets or income (or a bare minimum).

The real problem so far has always been for someone that lose his/her coverage, for example because of a job loss, and has some assets (house, retirement accounts, etc...) in that case if you have health problems you did need to run down your assets before qualifying for Medicaid (Medicare is the program for the seniors)

These cases were the bulk of the horror stories like "lost my house because of a heart attack" or if they had lousy coverage for expensive/extended treatments.

Obamacare, for all of its faults (the real pubblic choice is not there) takes care of most of these issues....you cannot be refused coverage, no pre-existing conditions and under certain income level you get enrolled into a default insurance plans (and you have to pay for)

Medicaid stays in its place for the poor.

Quote:
Another aspect is the dealing with private insurers. Many find even after spending thousands a year on premiums are still billed for doctor visits and a myriad of other charges, not to mention the endless back and forth or dealing with them over what is covered and what is not. Exhausting and stressful if one is ill.
Just Google the horror stories that many Americans go through with this.
Every plan has co-pay....usually $20 for a visit to the doctor.....some plans are more generous than others but you should know in advance on what to expect...you cannot get billed on a whim.

Quote:
Why do you think healthcare is such a hot topic down there?
Because of what I described before.....the ones "in the middle" risking losing their assets before qualifying for Medicaid...Obamacare solves most of this (the jury is still out about how effectively so)

Quote:
Friends of my parents in California had this happen to them. Worked all their lives and had healthcare coverage. This was in the 1990's. Wife got cancer. Insurance premiums went up since like any insurance once you start using it you become a higher risk so they charge you more. Premiums went up past their income. Couldn't go on state care since they had assets. Sold their house, spent their savings etc until they were declared eligible for some state care. Wife dies. Husband left with nothing.
Ya, great system.
Typical case of "people in the middle" (just watch Sicko by Michael Moore)...insurance premium cannot go up if you keep paying....yes if you let your insurance expire and reopen another one (typical of self-employed/contractors) and you had pre-conditions, yes you were in deep trouble....again Obamacare should resolve this issue.


No system is perfect.......Canadian health care has its faults too and they are serious ones....
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,492 posts, read 15,360,364 times
Reputation: 11929
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Same sex marriage and abortion are pretty much universally accepted by the mainstream population here (maybe except is some deep south pockets)....the rest is some surviving noise from discredited conservative politicians and withering down day by day (the GOP has largely accepted same sex marriage)...

On gun control, luckily we have the right to bear arms here and the recent initiative at limiting that right died off and deservely so....



They do and is called Medicaid...if they bother to enroll......and some states are even more generous than others and have additional programs (some programs for the poor in California cover even dental where low income people above the Medicaid threshold income often cannot afford that coverage)

If you are poor nobody can bill you because by definition, you do not have assets or income (or a bare minimum).

The real problem so far has always been for someone that lose his/her coverage, for example because of a job loss, and has some assets (house, retirement accounts, etc...) in that case if you have health problems you did need to run down your assets before qualifying for Medicaid (Medicare is the program for the seniors)

These cases were the bulk of the horror stories like "lost my house because of a heart attack" or if they had lousy coverage for expensive/extended treatments.

Obamacare, for all of its faults (the real pubblic choice is not there) takes care of most of these issues....you cannot be refused coverage, no pre-existing conditions and under certain income level you get enrolled into a default insurance plans (and you have to pay for)

Medicaid stays in its place for the poor.



Every plan has co-pay....usually $20 for a visit to the doctor.....some plans are more generous than others but you should know in advance on what to expect...you cannot get billed on a whim.



Because of what I described before.....the ones "in the middle" risking losing their assets before qualifying for Medicaid...Obamacare solves most of this (the jury is still out about how effectively so)



Typical case of "people in the middle" (just watch Sicko by Michael Moore)...insurance premium cannot go up if you keep paying....yes if you let your insurance expire and reopen another one (typical of self-employed/contractors) and you had pre-conditions, yes you were in deep trouble....again Obamacare should resolve this issue.


No system is perfect.......Canadian health care has its faults too and they are serious ones....
My main point is that the US healthcare system is inferior to the Canadian one. Co-pay and medicaid have major issues. Although the Canadian system is not perfect, everyone one is covered, no one loses their life savings or home because of illness. The US system is a complicated mess.
Two articles, one on co-pay issues and one on medicaid issues. Far from being role models on how to run a countries healthcare.

Beyond Co-Pay: Surprise Bills at the Doctor’s - WSJ.com

The Arc | Medicaid Issues
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:46 PM
 
3,861 posts, read 3,236,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
My main point is that the US healthcare system is inferior to the Canadian one. Co-pay and medicaid have major issues. Although the Canadian system is not perfect, everyone one is covered, no one loses their life savings or home because of illness. The US system is a complicated mess.

The US healthcare system is not a role model (for a lot of reasons beyond what we are discussing here)

But the Canadian one is neither....it pales in comparison with France for example...

But one undisputable fact is that the US remains one of the major source of healthcare innovation in technologies and procedures (very expensive R&D). which are exported to other countries...someone has to pay for it (granted there is A LOT OF waste too in administrative costs)

The US is not for everyboy....if you aspire to a 9-5 job is not for you....
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