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It's interesting how much sympathy we feel for child soldiers in African nations, or Sri Lanka and the Middle East. We lament their brainwashing and wring our hands when thinking of the. Terrible atrocities they committed as children, because they were under the control of adults who had brainwashed them and coerced them into fighting.
However, when a child soldier turns out to be a Canadian "terrorist", who was alleged to have thrown a grenade that killed a US serviceman, and was shot in the back multiple times, our sympathy goes out the window, and the child soldier becomes an "urchin" whose Canadian citizenship should be revoked. Even after soldiers on the battlefield that day dispute the fact that he threw the grenade, and that his gunshot wounds to the back indicate he was taken down while retreating, we lose no sleep over the fact that he is treated like an adult "enemy combatant", held in Guantanamo Bay for much of his young life, subjected to harshinterrogation, and tried for murder and material supplrt of terrorism in a military court.
Apparently, many Canadians are only willing to sympathize with child soldiers when the conflict and its combatants are far away from us and our society. But when a child soldier is one of own, accused of killing a soldier in the army of one of our closest allies, our sympathy goes out the window. We no longer see him as a child who was used and brainwashed, forced to fight against the Americans by his father and family - now he is simply a terrorist, and about half the country felt no problem with Canada refusing to repatriate him after every other country had repatriated their citizens being held at Guantanamo, and ignored American requests to do so. Apparently being a child soldier has given him no sympathy from our government and a large portion of the Canadian public.
So tell me....why the hypocrisy and double-standard when it comes to Omar Khadr?
Great Contrarian view!
I don't have direct answers to much of your questions, but I think that the label "Canadian Terrorist" troubled a lot of people. Emotions are a lot stronger and judgement is a lot cloudier when the fight is so close to home. However, in the end, Khadr received a rather mild sentence for the act(s) he committed (and he did confess to murder). Do you know that he could be out of prison (under Canadian law) as early as 2014?
And you have to remember that this WAR in the Middle East is against people who use schools and hospitals to launch rockets at civilians; and use 10 year old children as suicide bombers. We are fighting something that we don't even understand and someone like Khadr is simply a piece of this incredibly complicated puzzle. The fact that he was a "child soldier" is buried several layers deep .....
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I don't have direct answers to much of your questions, but I think that the label "Canadian Terrorist" troubled a lot of people. Emotions are a lot stronger and judgement is a lot cloudier when the fight is so close to home. However, in the end, Khadr received a rather mild sentence for the act(s) he committed (and he did confess to murder). Do you know that he could be out of prison (under Canadian law) as early as 2014?
And you have to remember that this WAR in the Middle East is against people who use schools and hospitals to launch rockets at civilians; and use 10 year old children as suicide bombers. We are fighting something that we don't even understand and someone like Khadr is simply a piece of this incredibly complicated puzzle. The fact that he was a "child soldier" is buried several layers deep .....
A rather mild sentence? He was in Guantanamo. And is now in maximum security in Ontario.
You're right it is hard to understand why the U.S. invaded Afghanistan or Iraq, because there is no good reason. And certainly had nothing to do with rockets being launched from schools, maybe you're thinking of Palestine. He confessed to murder of a soldier: how many innocent civilians has the United States killed in its invasions and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq?
Answer:
Spoiler
132,000
He was still a 15-yr-old child when he was captured, and a child shouldn't be sent to Guantanamo to be detained indefinitely by immoral torturers who operate outside of international prohibitions on treatment of military prisoners, and answer to no one.
A rather mild sentence? He was in Guantanamo. And is now in maximum security in Ontario.
You're right it is hard to understand why the U.S. invaded Afghanistan or Iraq, because there is no good reason.
He was still a 15-yr-old child when he was captured, and a child shouldn't be sent to Guantanamo to be detained indefinitely by immoral torturers who operate outside of international prohibitions on treatment of military prisoners, and answer to no one.
Firstly, there is no evidence that he was tortured. And I don't recall Khadr even implying that he was ever harshly interrogated.
Guantanamo while not the best "idea" in the world, does not operate outside international law.
Khadr was the first person since WW2 to be tried for war crimes while still a minor. He was very lucky to have not been tried as an adult (there are provisions for that in international law). Had he been just one year older, he would have received life in prison. What saved him was US/Canada relations and media pressure.
Khadr is due for parole in 2013.
And before I am attacked for saying all this. Let me add some more facts. USA is probably the only country in the West where a juvenile can be tried in court as an adult. So many 14-16 year olds who have committed violent crimes, receive punishments as if they were an adult. So yes, Khadr was very lucky! He could have faced life-in-prison or even the death penalty if he was not sent back to Canada. Instead he received 8-years and is due for parole this year!
Last edited by sandman249; 06-11-2013 at 03:31 PM..
Reason: add
Firstly, there is no evidence that he was tortured. And I don't recall Khadr even implying that he was ever harshly interrogated.
Guantanamo while not the best "idea" in the world, does not operate outside international law.
Khadr was the first person since WW2 to be tried for war crimes while still a minor. He was very lucky to have not been tried as an adult (there are provisions for that in international law). Had he been just one year older, he would have received life in prison. What saved him was US/Canada relations and media pressure.
Khadr is due for parole in 2013.
Guantanamo Detention Camp most certainlydoes operate outside of international law, at least according to the U.N.'s Human Rights chief Navi Pillay who in January 2012 said:
"she was disturbed by the Government’s failure to allow independent human rights monitoring of the detention conditions at Guantanamo."
“Yet the facility continues to exist and individuals remain arbitrarily detained – indefinitely – in clear breach of international law,” she added.
“To make matters worse, the new U.S. National Defense Authorization Act, signed into law in December 2011, now effectively codifies such indefinite military detention without charge or trial," including for American citizens and presumably Canadians also. "This piece of legislation contravenes some of the most fundamental tenets of justice and human rights, namely the right to a fair trial and the right not to be arbitrarily detained. Nobody should ever be held for years on end without being tried and convicted, or released.”
The UN rights chief said she was also disturbed at the failure to ensure accountability for serious human rights violations, including torture, that took place there.
Hope you weren't trolling for a defense position on dear Conrad as I was one who used him as an example of the nefarious type who would look for companies to buy based solely on the amount of designated surplus funds in their private pension plans ~ Remember Dominion Grocery Stores? A cretin of the first order!
As a member of a trustee's group of a private plan in Canada (rated 4th best) I used him and his spurious deeds to good advantage to put bylaws in place that would serve to tie up any surplus funds should a Conrad Black come knocking at our door.
Firstly, there is no evidence that he was tortured. And I don't recall Khadr even implying that he was ever harshly interrogated.
Guantanamo while not the best "idea" in the world, does not operate outside international law.
Also, there is clear evidence and testimony that he was tortured. He spent a DECADE in Guantanamo, from 2002 to 2012, do you really think he was the sole prisoner to escape the torture that goes on there? There is a video here:
There are even doubts that he did what the U.S. military claims he did given he was tortured into confessing.
Do not believe anything that the U.S. government officially says about Guantanamo. Many of the detainees are innocent farmers and non-combatants who were swept up by the U.S. military. The U.S. government has consistently lied and obfuscated about the reality of how detainees are treated there, including the documented murders of several inmates from torture.
It's interesting how much sympathy we feel for child soldiers in African nations, or Sri Lanka and the Middle East. We lament their brainwashing and wring our hands when thinking of the. Terrible atrocities they committed as children, because they were under the control of adults who had brainwashed them and coerced them into fighting.
However, when a child soldier turns out to be a Canadian "terrorist", who was alleged to have thrown a grenade that killed a US serviceman, and was shot in the back multiple times, our sympathy goes out the window, and the child soldier becomes an "urchin" whose Canadian citizenship should be revoked. Even after soldiers on the battlefield that day dispute the fact that he threw the grenade, and that his gunshot wounds to the back indicate he was taken down while retreating, we lose no sleep over the fact that he is treated like an adult "enemy combatant", held in Guantanamo Bay for much of his young life, subjected to harshinterrogation, and tried for murder and material supplrt of terrorism in a military court.
Apparently, many Canadians are only willing to sympathize with child soldiers when the conflict and its combatants are far away from us and our society. But when a child soldier is one of own, accused of killing a soldier in the army of one of our closest allies, our sympathy goes out the window. We no longer see him as a child who was used and brainwashed, forced to fight against the Americans by his father and family - now he is simply a terrorist, and about half the country felt no problem with Canada refusing to repatriate him after every other country had repatriated their citizens being held at Guantanamo, and ignored American requests to do so. Apparently being a child soldier has given him no sympathy from our government and a large portion of the Canadian public.
So tell me....why the hypocracy and double-standard when it comes to Omar Khadr?
Excuse me? You have me mixed up with some other Canadian who has previously posted compassion for child soldiers of any stripe! I'm sure you can find one of those posts of mine and quote it?
If you have ever thrown a grenade you know your hands are then empty and must seek cover to engage with any other type of weapon, hence you get shot in the back. The weapons commonly used in urban warfare today are full automatic capable with the possibility of three round burst selection. Sooo, given that scenario he would have, at the very least, been shot three times as no soldier (without a death wish) engaged in a 'close proximity' urban firefight will have his weapon on single fire.
I believe firmly in judging each and every situation on it's merits and in Omar's case I find him wanting on the morality front. Tsk, tsk, sue me.
Excuse me? You have me mixed up with some other Canadian who has previously posted compassion for child soldiers of any stripe! I'm sure you can find one of those posts of mine and quote it?
If you have ever thrown a grenade you know your hands are then empty and must seek cover to engage with any other type of weapon, hence you get shot in the back. The weapons commonly used in urban warfare today are full automatic capable with the possibility of three round burst selection. Sooo, given that scenario he would have, at the very least, been shot three times as no soldier (without a death wish) engaged in a 'close proximity' urban firefight will have his weapon on single fire.
I believe firmly in judging each and every situation on it's merits and in Omar's case I find him wanting on the morality front. Tsk, tsk, sue me.
You know that his "confession" was obtained under torture and threats of gang rape?
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