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The U.S. constitution is the supreme law of the land and cannot be contravened by any ordinary legislation, only by amendment.
Patriot Act, to the extent that it purports to allow the warrantless, suspicionless wiretapping of U.S. citizens is plainly unconstitutional on its face.
Will our pansy big government stacked supreme court full of CIA/NSA shills rule accordingly? Who knows. They will probably deny certiorari on any claims made in connection with this case, or claim injusticiability due to matters of national security. The court is a kangaroo court.
Anyone who is at all surprised by this NSA revelation has not been paying much attention to privacy issues. I read an expose of NSA way back in the early 80s. They were catching virtually all communications back then. It was much easier for them as over 90% of the communications at the time were over telephone land lines. The explosion in communication in the cyber age has just led to an explosion in the size and scope of the NSA. In Canada the RCMP and now cisis have ALWAYS spied on whatever Canadians they felt like spying on. I think if anything it's been more pervasive here in Canada than the USA.
But don't you think this is wrong?
It's along the continuum of fascism, especially in the U.S., where not only can the government spy on its own citizens, it can arrest them without laying any charges, and detain them indefinitely.
Americans were so critical of the Russian gulag, but even those prisoners, usually dissidents, received a trial, even if it was a kangaroo court. Everyone's angry about how dissidents are treated in countries like China, but now we are headed down the same path.
It's along the continuum of fascism, especially in the U.S., where not only can the government spy on its own citizens, it can arrest them without laying any charges, and detain them indefinitely.
Americans were so critical of the Russian gulag, but even those prisoners, usually dissidents, received a trial, even if it was a kangaroo court. Everyone's angry about how dissidents are treated in countries like China, but now we are headed down the same path.
I actually mostly agree with you, ellemint. I do accept that in these days of terrorists and fast planes, that governments need to share information. But I do believe that our fear will lead us down the path where our rights disappear and no one says anything. At the same time, this isn't really new - remember all the witch-hunts over communists and McCarthy? When you have a big army, you need an enemy to justify it. Real or imagined. And I would like to know more about exactly what information the Canadian government shares with the US.
We are different countries. Our enemies are not necessarily identical. And our interests won't necessarily coincide, and it isn't about being "anti" US - it is about the Canadian government representing the interests of Canadians.
The U.S. constitution is the supreme law of the land and cannot be contravened by any ordinary legislation, only by amendment.
Patriot Act, to the extent that it purports to allow the warrantless, suspicionless wiretapping of U.S. citizens is plainly unconstitutional on its face.
Will our pansy big government stacked supreme court full of CIA/NSA shills rule accordingly? Who knows. They will probably deny certiorari on any claims made in connection with this case, or claim injusticiability due to matters of national security. The court is a kangaroo court.
It's a moote point if the law is constitutional or not. Until such time as it is overturned the law is what it is. The administration cannot be doing something illegal if, in fact it is not breaking any exsisting law.
lucknow, I went to law school in the U.S. and graduated c u m laude. You are wrong. When it invalidates a law based on a constitutional challenge known as a facial challenge the Supreme Court does not declare that the law is henceforth inoperative, but that it was outside of the power of the government to enact in the first place. Thus, the law is void - and always was void as violative of the U.S. constitution.
Last edited by tarp; 06-17-2013 at 02:53 PM..
Reason: retarded forum blocks the word "c u m" in "c u m laude"
How willing do you think Canadians would be to protest against being spied on? It's pretty obvious that Canada has been quite docile regarding the whole thing... so at what point will it be realized that this is an infringement of rights?
From what i'm seeing on Canadian news,newspapers and forums the likely hood of our Canadian government spying on us doesnt really make for as big a deal as it does in the USA where its a really big tempest in a teapot with the likes of Limbaugh.Beck and FOX doing their usual song and dance of righteous indignation and hate the President routine. Tea party is simply apoplectic on the issue.
From my day to day conversations with friends, family and co=workers here in Canada the subject hasnt come up yet.Seems to be not a big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101
The message got through, governments spy on their citizens..
Anyone who is "shocked" about any government (and it doesn't matter which Republic, Country, State, County, or Perfecture, etc.) using surveillance by various methods on its citizens have their heads in the sand and have not been paying attention in various History classes.
Best regards, sincerely
HomeIsWhere...
“The war on Terror” is a Front for an Undeclared Agenda and the usual spin was that the public needs to be safe from terrorists, and safety is what the government is providing.
There is no longer any doubt whatsoever that the US government is lawless, that it regards the US Constitution as a scrap of paper, that it does not believe Americans have any rights other than those that the government tolerates at any point in time, and that the government has no fear of being held accountable by the weak and castrated US Congress, the sycophantic federal courts, a controlled media, and an insouciant public.
Police states spy on their own citizens. So does that make the U.S. and Canada police states?
I don't know, what does anyone know for sure...but it is quite alarming in my opinon. Alarming in that where does one go from here, how do we take it back?
Best regards, sincerely
HomeIsWhere...
"Has the United States become a police state?”
7 Examples of a “Police State,” and How They Are Appearing in the U.S.
But no matter how you feel about the characterization of what is occurring right now, the most important point is this: if we’re not a police state already, we are marching closer and closer every day.
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Quite right
