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Old 06-25-2013, 10:23 AM
 
3,072 posts, read 4,287,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
You have a huge chip on your shoulder. All I'm saying is that we should be promoting English and French bilingualism from coast to coast to coast. That's all. The fact that you voted for the CAQ proves that you're a separatist (they're an openly separatist party, you know!) and you obviously either hate Canada or hate Anglo-Quebeckers or both. I may not be an "expert" on BC (Coquitlam is at least on the Fraser River. Give me a break.) but at least I have respect for the people that live there. One thing is for certain, though, I'm at least proud of the country I live in and I'm not voting for parties that want to carve it up and exclude a group that has been in Quebec for a quarter of a millenium. You're not a "pure laine Québécoise", and you'll never be "one of them" no matter how hard you try.
I really think you are reading into things far more than what is actually written You sound like you might be mentally ill, ranting about me being a separatist, hating Canada, hating Quebec, but being a separatist because I want to be pure laine, can you at least pick one because they contradict each other????
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,695 posts, read 6,551,110 times
Reputation: 8198
Every time I read these threads, I want Manitoba to separate.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Canada
171 posts, read 232,123 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
I voted for the Coalition Avenir, if that makes it evident how I feel (or don't feel).

Acajack~ I see what you are saying, I just don't understand how anyone can even make comparisons between language issues in Quebec/Ontario to British Columbia. There is just no comparison, history is completely different, daily life is completely different (lingustically), expectations even in federal positions is completely different, the francophone "community" is more underground than anything else, it's not like how you have anglophones in Bedford/West Island or in Ottawa or other franco-Ontario populations. To try and compare would make it very clear that pdw has never lived in BC or probably never even visited.
The point is that the English in Canada often use the argument that the country is bilingual as a reason to speak English in Montreal/Quebec.
English and French are offered by all government services in Montreal and in fact most other businesses.
However, in English speaking Canada, French is not offered even as an option for many companies - they offer Chinese/other languages before French.
The argument cannot be used one way by the English.

Last edited by qwertyjjj; 06-25-2013 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:41 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,968,749 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyjjj View Post
The pint is that the English in Canada often use the argument that the country is bilingual as a reaosn to speak English in Montreal/Quebec.
English and French are offered by all government services in Montreal and in fact most other businesses.
However, in English speaking Canada, French is not offered even as an option for many companies. They offer Chinese/other languages before French.
The argument cannot be used one way by the English.
So a few companies not offering services in French is an excuse to say that Montreal is not a bilingual city?
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,416,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
So a few companies not offering services in French is an excuse to say that Montreal is not a bilingual city?
No but it does illustrate the imbalance evocatively, and demonstrate that the imbalance is not on the side that is often alleged.

Just one example: I have had quite a few dealings with the Apple Store in downtown Ottawa recently. In this entire store where at any given time there are at least 30 people working. I have never heard a single staff member speak French to a client.

Note that there is no Apple Store in Gatineau which has 275 000 people and is 85% francophone. So people from Gatineau go to the Ottawa Apple Store.

The Ottawa Apple Store serves a city that is 17% francophone and a metro area that is 35% francophone. Yet not a soul (seemingly) speaks French in there.

Could one imagine an Apple Store in the Montreal area that does not have English-speaking staff? I am sure the one in downtown Montreal is flawlessly bilingual in its customer service.

And yet the percentages of anglophones in Montreal are either equal (in the city) or a lot less (in the metro) than francophones in the Ottawa area.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:55 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,968,749 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
No but it does illustrate the imbalance evocatively, and demonstrate that the imbalance is not on the side that is often alleged.

Just one example: I have had quite a few dealings with the Apple Store in downtown Ottawa recently. In this entire store where at any given time there are at least 30 people working. I have never heard a single staff member speak French to a client.

Note that there is no Apple Store in Gatineau which has 275 000 people and is 85% francophone. So people from Gatineau go to the Ottawa Apple Store.

The Ottawa Apple Store serves a city that is 17% francophone and a metro area that is 35% francophone. Yet not a soul (seemingly) speaks French in there.

Could one imagine an Apple Store in the Montreal area that does not have English-speaking staff? I am sure the one in downtown Montreal is flawlessly bilingual in its customer service.

And yet the percentages of anglophones in Montreal are either equal (in the city) or a lot less (in the metro) than francophones in the Ottawa area.
You look at the world with one eye shut. You are wrong about there not being businesses in downtown Montreal where the staff aren't bilingual.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Canada
171 posts, read 232,123 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
So a few companies not offering services in French is an excuse to say that Montreal is not a bilingual city?
No, my point was that a bilingual country should have English and French taught by default. Then if you want to learn a 3rd language...go for it.

There is a separate argument here.
That is that the English use an excuse not to learn/speak French in Montreal/Quebec. The argument that the country is bilingual is used so anyone can choose to speak which language they want.
Now...if the country was indeed bilingual then French should be offered for ALL services in English speaking Canada. It is not.
But...services are offered in in Chinese/Spanish! This is not really sending a good message to the francophones is it? Yet if the same was done in Quebec, all hell breaks loose with the anglophones.
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Old 06-25-2013, 11:57 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,968,749 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyjjj View Post
No, my point was that a bilingual country should have English and French taught be default.
There is a separate argument that the English use an excuse not to learn/speak French in Montreal/Quebec and that is the argument that the country is bilingual.
Now...if the country was indeed bilingual then French should be offered for ALL services in English speaking Canada. It is not.
Then why don't we focus on that instead of banning English in Quebec?
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Canada
171 posts, read 232,123 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Then why don't we focus on that instead of banning English in Quebec?
Absolutely and I'm actually sure a lot of francophones would agree.
However, you get the divide and conquer tricks played by the PQ.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,416,532 times
Reputation: 8626
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Then why don't we focus on that instead of banning English in Quebec?
French Canadian nationalism was actually pan-Canadian, focused on expanding the language across the country, and not entirely focused on Quebec, from the days of Henri Bourassa in the early 1900s up until the late 1960s. But assimilation of francophone communities (with only a few exceptions) was rampant and most of the provincial governments were hostile to French at the time. Plus French was slowly being eroded in Quebec as well.

So the French Canadian leadership of the day opted to shore up the bastion of Quebec, where at least francophones had enough political power to carry the day.

For more information, read up on the États Généraux du Canada Français of 1967.

But the short answer is been there, done that. Didn't work.
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