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Old 06-25-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Montreal > Quebec > Canada
476 posts, read 426,395 times
Reputation: 263

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Then why don't we focus on that instead of banning English in Quebec?
Oh will you stop with this. English isn't "banned" nor is it being "eradicated" or "wiped out of the map": it is only limited symbolically. In practice anglo-montrealers have access to pretty much any governmental, educational or commercial service in the language of their choice, which is not the case for francophones in Ottawa and elsewhere as it has been pointed out to you repeatedly, and I don't see you being outraged about that.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,941 posts, read 27,338,144 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
You look at the world with one eye shut. You are wrong about there not being businesses in downtown Montreal where the staff aren't bilingual.
Not saying there aren't. But compared to French in Ottawa? A joke.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:24 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,963,351 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
French Canadian nationalism was actually pan-Canadian, focused on expanding the language across the country, and not entirely focused on Quebec, from the days of Henri Bourassa in the early 1900s up until the late 1960s. But assimilation of francophone communities (with only a few exceptions) was rampant and most of the provincial governments were hostile to French at the time. Plus French was slowly being eroded in Quebec as well.
Not true, especially when we're talking about the late 1960s. The percentage of English-speaking Quebeckers hit its peak 20 years earlier. Bill 101 was unnecessary and the separatist movement is rooted in racism.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:30 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,963,351 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by begratto View Post
Oh will you stop with this. English isn't "banned" nor is it being "eradicated" or "wiped out of the map": it is only limited symbolically. In practice anglo-montrealers have access to pretty much any governmental, educational or commercial service in the language of their choice, which is not the case for francophones in Ottawa and elsewhere as it has been pointed out to you repeatedly, and I don't see you being outraged about that.
A lack of French-language services is minor in comparison. Every resource we had left to sustain our community has been taken away. Our language is being systematically forced into extinction.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,941 posts, read 27,338,144 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Not true, especially when we're talking about the late 1960s. The percentage of English-speaking Quebeckers hit its peak 20 years earlier. Bill 101 was unnecessary and the separatist movement is rooted in racism.
Almost all of the indicators for French in Quebec were bad in the 1960s:

- the number of French mother tongue speakers was higher than the number of people speaking French at home, a sure-fire indicator of assimilation. The assimilation rate of francophone Québécois to English was on the rise, which is why Anglo-Quebecers of French Canadian origin make up 15% of the anglo community today. Francophone Québécois were assimilating to English in those days because of economic and societal pressures.

- Immigrants to Quebec were assimilating to the anglo community at a rate of 85-90%, and often never learning any French. This is not a sustainable situation in a society that is 85% francophone. Even in communities like Val-D'Or, Trois-Rivières and Quebec City, you had people of Polish, Spanish or German origin who learned English as opposed to French. Once again, this was not sustainable.

- Francophones faced economic and linguistic discrimination from the ruling elite which at that time continued to exercise the levers of power which were handed to them on a silver platter during a few centuries of British colonialism.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,941 posts, read 27,338,144 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
A lack of French-language services is minor in comparison. Every resource we had left to sustain our community has been taken away. Our language is being systematically forced into extinction.
You are far from the only one who displays this double standard and spouts inaccuracies and extreme hyperbole, which is why as I said the gripes of Anglo-Quebecers are these days losing credibility faster than you can say "101 or the 401".
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:12 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,963,351 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You are far from the only one who displays this double standard and spouts inaccuracies and extreme hyperbole, which is why as I said the gripes of Anglo-Quebecers are these days losing credibility faster than you can say "101 or the 401".
Explain how this is a double standard. There is no Bill 202 in Ontario banning French.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,941 posts, read 27,338,144 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Explain how this is a double standard. There is no Bill 202 in Ontario banning French.
We have already explained numerous times in great detail how everything Anglo-Quebecers have - including much from the provincial government - that Franco-Ontarians (to use that one example) don't more than offsets the cosmetic inconvenience of having to have French on store signs (in addition to English if you wish BTW). We've repeated it so many times that we are starting to get blue in the face.
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:21 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,963,351 times
Reputation: 857
Answer this question, don't dance around it: Why don't you believe that English should be treated equally to French in Quebec?
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,941 posts, read 27,338,144 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Answer this question, don't dance around it: Why don't you believe that English should be treated equally to French in Quebec?
English does have equality in Quebec. It's actually more equal than any other language except French and enjoys numerous privileges that other minority languages don't enjoy.

But sure, it's not the main societal language. Every society has a language which people speak when they "converge" together. In Quebec, that's French.

In Ontario, that's English. Why is French not equal to English in Ontario? I think you know the answer.

And plus, if you made French and English co-official and equal in societal life in Quebec, I think we all know where that would lead, don't we? Given the Canadian, North American and global contexts.
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