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Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
Reputation: 8623

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
It's not a question of whether or not Quebec could do well without English, it's the fact that you actually support the idea of eliminating the English community. That is racist. You go on and on about WASPs... you do realise that the overwhelming majority of anglophones in Quebec are from a mixed cultural background, right? My family is from Quebec, and we are not of even partial Anglo-Saxon descent.
Please don't put words in my mouth.

And call me names.

I actually am a supporter of the anglophone community's institutions in Quebec.

But I am also in favour of maintaining a proper balance and not compromising Quebec's francophone character that makes it a unique society in this part of the world.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 PM
 
18,339 posts, read 10,411,152 times
Reputation: 13401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I guess the reason you guys are concerned about things about getting violent and nasty is because you have a good idea about what this is all about: probably 90-95% of the killing that has been done against people who were "different" in Canadian history was done by white anglos against francophones, aboriginals and other minorities, and NOT the other way around.
Niiice! The implied reference of course being francophones did no killing of minorities, aboriginals or people who were different. How very unprejudicial of you in your choice of those demographics and there assigned roles.

I didn't say I was in the least bit concerned. I very likely won't still be around when it happens but if you are naive enough to ignore the concept of a violent "push back" resulting from years of perceived slights against a minority group with the silly admonishment that they're merely "blowing small things out of proportion" then you must have been in diapers when those exact same parameters existed and ultimately got 'blown out of proportion' resulting in those violent days. Unless of course you adhere to only slights against Francophones are legitimate greivances and all others of any other demographic are to be ignored as being insignificant? Surely you're not that dense.

Ignore the past at your peril. If you think the constant beating about the ears of the english speaking minority with idiotic language laws that serve to punish over "small things" will not one day result in exactly the same result as the rise of the FLQ; you're completely deluded.

Revel in the power you are now enjoying but keep your bags packed for a quick exit as Marois and her ilk are taking Quebec down the very same path of arrogance begatting violence. You not seeing it for what it is won't change that in the slightest.

I reiterate; those stupid language laws are an abject admission of failure and will come back to bite your hiney.

Last edited by BruSan; 06-28-2013 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Of what background are most Anglo-Quebeckers - English, Scottish, or Irish?
Italian and Ashkenazi Jewish?
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,505,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Italian and Ashkenazi Jewish?
In Montreal at least. Of the British Isles types, a decent mix of English and Scottish with English predominant. There's also a significant contingent of people with French last names.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
In Montreal at least. Of the British Isles types, a decent mix of English and Scottish with English predominant. There's also a significant contingent of people with French last names.
I was being a bit facetious but it's true it's not that far off. In Montreal it is quite mixed with Italian, Ashkenazi, English, Scottish, Irish, Greek, French Canadian, South Asian, East Asian, Anglo-Caribbean...

Some of the British Isles origins are not as high as one might expect because a good chunk of them are now francophones (especially true of Irish and to a lesser degree Scottish even). I have read that Quebec is home to the only Irish origin and Scottish origin populations in the world that are majority French-speaking. In the case of the Irish there is portion that is still English-speaking of course but a strong majority are native francophones. As for the Scottish as far as I have heard the community is today maybe 50-60% francophone.

It's not impossible in Quebec to have a second-generation Italian-Quebecer who "chose" English as their language to argue for anglo rights in the province with a multi-generation Québécois person of Irish or Scottish who is defending the primacy of French.

Outside of Montreal as BIMBAM said the anglo community is very predominately of the traditional English-Scottish-Irish anglo stock you'd expect, but with some French Canadian mixed in also.

Overall in Quebec (Montreal plus the regions) the anglo community is about 15% French Canadian in origin.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:42 PM
 
3,072 posts, read 4,286,398 times
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Lots of Irish on the north shore, my dad and his family were Irish immigrants from 4 generations back in Rosemere.

There are also quite a bit of us anglophones here from other provinces, the USA, and Australia. "We" are not really as involved in the whole language debate, perhaps because I feel more like the foreign allophone than an anglophone here. Most of "us" outside Montreal at least immigrated here under the perception that we would have to integrate into the francophone society from day 1 rather than exist in the anglophone system. Although technically eligible, my children attend the francophone school system.

I'm not sure how my kids would be perceived if someone decided to label them? They are native English speakers but with distinctly francophone names and completely bilingual. The youngest born here but the other not.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
There are also quite a bit of us anglophones here from other provinces, the USA, and Australia. "We" are not really as involved in the whole language debate, perhaps because I feel more like the foreign allophone than an anglophone here. Most of "us" outside Montreal at least immigrated here under the perception that we would have to integrate into the francophone society from day 1 rather than exist in the anglophone system. .
Even in Montreal I find that the neo-anglos (US, Australia, UK, rest of Canada) tend to be more relaxed and less angry.

The most bitter seem to be either

a) the really, really old-stock anglos and

b) people of immigrant origin (distant or recent) who made more of an effort to learn English for their new lives here (than they did for French) and who now are frustrated that there are some ''doors'' that English does not magically open up for them here.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:34 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,968,274 times
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Good little anglophones aka Frenchified anglos

Good Little Anglophones - YouTube

I don't think it's fair to expect someone to use French as their first official language when coming to a community where English is an important part of society. Anglophones are just as much Quebeckers as francophones are. Not speaking French first doesn't mean you're not "integrating".

I will say this, learning French in Montreal is important, but no more important than learning English. If English-speakers are expected to learn French, French-speakers should be expected to learn English.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,568 posts, read 9,441,340 times
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This has come a loooooooooooong way from my OP.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,410,308 times
Reputation: 8623
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Good little anglophones aka Frenchified anglos

Good Little Anglophones - YouTube

I don't think it's fair to expect someone to use French as their first official language when coming to a community where English is an important part of society. Anglophones are just as much Quebeckers as francophones are. Not speaking French first doesn't mean you're not "integrating".

I will say this, learning French in Montreal is important, but no more important than learning English. If English-speakers are expected to learn French, French-speakers should be expected to learn English.
Wow. If he is so critical of people stooping so low as to speak another language (lest it be French) even on occasion, I wonder how much disdain he has for the hundreds of millions of people around the world who have entirely forgotten their original language and assimilated to another one.

Egads! Some of that assimilation might have happened from English to French! Shocking!

I also wonder what he thinks of people who were originally Italian or Yiddish speaking and who assimilated to English in Montreal itself.

Is this a bad thing also? Or simply "natural"?
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