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Old 07-17-2013, 04:01 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,229 posts, read 1,783,564 times
Reputation: 2723

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Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
But you haven't studied the Articles of Confederation, so how can you truly understand the US Constitution?
Be careful what you wish for. Be very, very careful.

Just a friendly hint,

CS
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:03 AM
 
558 posts, read 550,564 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Unfair comparison. The Queen is Head of State, akin to the US President. The US Senate is akin to the UK's House of Lords. As such, you cannot compare the Queen/President (i.e. the Head of State) to the House of Lords/US Senate, both of which are lower bodies.
It's fair because he 1st tried to make a comparison between them two, and 2nd claim that the US Senate was undemocratic, even though each Senator is voted into their position, unlike the Queen.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:06 AM
 
558 posts, read 550,564 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Your opinion. And many Canadians share that opinion.

But many other Canadians do not. So what are you going to do?

Tell me, do you stir up this stuff in the Australian forum? The New Zealand forum? The Indian or Pakistani forum? The South African forum? The others all have a Westminster system, just as Canada does; what is it about Canada in particular and its system of government that bugs you?
In due time, I will try and not stir up, but encourage and support.

Last edited by drknoble; 07-17-2013 at 04:16 AM..
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,229 posts, read 1,783,564 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
It's fair because he 1st tried to make a comparison between them two, and 2nd claim that the US Senate was undemocratic, even though each Senator is voted into their position, unlike the Queen.
So is the Queen the equivalent of the US Senate?

Hint: Look towards your own civics lessons.

So somehow the Queen is identical to your Senate. Yes?

Looking forward to your response.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:10 AM
 
558 posts, read 550,564 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Your whole topic makes no sense but just for fun lay out some scenarios you think the Queen could perpetrate on the Canadian people.
It makes perfect sense, since a monarchy is the opposite of a democracy, and I'm encouraging a democracy to rid itself of an undemocratic institution.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,229 posts, read 1,783,564 times
Reputation: 2723
Oh, this is fun! Bring it on, Dr. Knobel, I'd like to debate Canadian law with an American who never studied it!

Mu-wha-ha-ha!
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:12 AM
 
34,670 posts, read 41,864,017 times
Reputation: 30091
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Your whole topic makes no sense but just for fun lay out some scenarios you think the Queen could perpetrate on the Canadian people.
Quote:
Still waiting...eh!
As i thought no examples at all of what the supposedly evil monarchy could perpetrate on the Canadian people today, why? because your supposedly evil monarchy left the building hundreds of years ago and is now just a symbolic triviality from the past that we Canadians respect as a part of our cultural mosaic, this topic being all torque no traction and not really worthy of anything more than a few sarcastic responses has made me proud to see so many Canadians and a few Americans come together and stand up to your feigned self righteous indignation at another countries cultural makeup. Seems to me its your country thats afu not ours.

Last edited by jambo101; 07-17-2013 at 04:54 AM..
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
11,265 posts, read 13,263,746 times
Reputation: 13467
Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Not everyone's truth is the same, so don't try the assumptive close. Your cause isn't good, either. Condescending is looking down upon people, as you did, denigrating their institution as if yours must fundamentally be better.



Evidently I know a lot that you don't, beginning with knowing that you're wrong. Just saying those things won't make it so, no matter how often you repeat them. I've been to Canada a lot, and known a lot of Canadians and done some reading of Canadian history. None of those adjectives describe Canada, and your stance is childish and dogmatic. It deteriorates utterly when exposed to one simple fact: Canadians democratically accept the constitutional monarchy. They could democratically reject it. They do not. One could call it a national decision, but only by default; really it's a national non-decision, as in a majority do not see a problem and thus seek no solution. Democracy at work.



You did not articulate the direct comparison, but you didn't need to. Your evasive maneuvers won't work. You spoke from an American perspective putting down constitutional monarchy in a Canadian forum. Trying to pretend that no comparison is implied is disingenuous.



I suggest you visit Canada for a time. Your attitude suggests that you have not--or that perhaps you have gone there and behaved thus, and felt rejected. I can see how that could happen. You've been very insulting to an institution many Canadians respect. If you went up there and did the same, well, you probably didn't learn as much as you otherwise could have. None of the insults you generated toward the monarchy are valid descriptions of the Canadian form of democracy I've followed and studied.

Want to know what's shameful, primitive, ridiculous and barbaric? Coming in here and behaving as you have, using words like that. It's shameful because it embarrasses your country and its people. It's primitive because it's dogmatic and closed to learning, the brute force approach. It's ridiculous because it has no chance to get any traction for your anti-monarchical crusade, and it's barbaric because civilized newcomers tend to show respect for differences even when they don't agree. You might want to find new words that can't more easily be applied to you than to Queen Elizabeth II of Canada.



What little authority the Queen has rests absolutely upon Canadian sufferance. In short, were it abused, it would be rejected and renounced in a democratic way. It is not abused, thus it is not rejected.



Own a dictionary and use it. Prejudice means the prejudgment of something. You have prejudged this institution without ever living under it, just because you happen to believe monarchy is fundamentally and essentially undemocratic. The most charitable interpretation is that you came to preach and evangelize for your position, which you begin by assuming is fundamentally superior. A simpler explanation is 'troll.'

You could do a lot more good for democracy if you stayed home and spoke out against the corporate ownership and operation of so much of our own leadership. We might even agree that there's a lot of work there for both of us, getting our own national house in order so that rich interests can't just keep buying Congressional favors.



You need to learn that your definition of viewpoints is valid only to you. Your pronouncements do not make something truth. There's a lot else you need to learn, but I'd start with that. You have embarrassed yourself, fellow Americans such as me, and your country with your behavior here. You have lived up to some of our most lamentable stereotypes. Articulate ignorance and dismissiveness is still ignorance and dismissiveness; it's just easier to read. You had the opportunity to come here and open a thoughtful discussion, but your denigrating language at start made it clear you had only come to lecture and insult, treating your opponents as inferiors. They have been quite restrained by my lights.

I was sixteen once, as I gather you must be. I thought I knew everything useful, and that anyone who disagreed was just wrong. I held ignorant, dogmatic views and was sometimes abrasive and even unbearable toward people who saw the world differently. I thought that I could just make pronouncements as if they were fact, and that they had to be treated as if credible. That's pretty normal at that age.

Then a number of people who knew better, and knew how to question my blithe and simpleminded assumptions, rhetorically kicked my butt up around my ears until I realized the error of my ways, and learned to think critically. I stopped doing what you've done here.

Try engaging people like a respectable, advanced, sensible, civilized adult. Take my word that it works better.

You're my favorite. lol

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Old 07-17-2013, 04:26 AM
 
558 posts, read 550,564 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post
Bingo. You've just mentioned national symbols.

Well, let me suggest this to you: the Queen is a symbol.

As a symbol, she stands for our continuity. She stands for Canada. From her, and her line, we connect to 900 years of parliamentary history. Kind of puts paid to your measly 200+ years, doesn't it?

I don't expect you to understand this; as an American raised under the American system, you have been raised to believe that the Westminster parliamentary system is somehow inferior. But it is not. It has lasted for over 900 years, so there must be something to it. That continuity extends to us Canadians today.

Who is unlucky? I would suggest that Americans are. They really don't know what a representative democracy is, as long as "special interests" intercept their "representatives" in Congress. The House, the Senate, they are both in thrall to special interests that we do not have here in Canada.
The unelected Queen is more than just a symbol since she's was so "lucky" to be born into a family where she receives executive powers divinely bestowed upon her by her God and your Canadian Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevySpoons View Post

Never mind that. My question is this:

Your answer, Dr. Knobel?
And my answer is this, Chevy Spoil:

Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
In due time, I will try and not stir up, but encourage and support.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:45 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,229 posts, read 1,783,564 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
And my answer is this, Chevy Spoil:
You misspelled my name. It is ChevySpoons. "Chevy" like the car, and "Spoons," like what you eat with. Got it?

At any rate, I am unsure what your answer is. Why don't you go away and think very carefully about what you would like to say next. As I said, think very carefully. I will be watching,

CS
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