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Old 07-18-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan
1,303 posts, read 989,589 times
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Our Prime Minister recommends to Queen Elizabeth who will be our next Governor General.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:04 PM
 
18,326 posts, read 10,398,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
Simple reality: if he'd wanted to provoke thoughtful discussion without becoming a troll doll, he could have. One only barges in using the sort of language he did when one's goal is to provoke and troll. The easiest way to start a real discussion would be to ask a question: what powers does the Queen have, through her GG, under Canadian law? Someone here would know that answer and offer it. That goes to the heart of the discussion, and it could then be discussed whether there is a democracy issue or not.

Of course, the underlying assumption no one ever questions is that democracy must surely be the most perfect and only worthwhile form of government in existence, and that more democracy is always better to begin with. I think that premise is open to question. What isn't reasonably open to question is whether it works well in Canada, because evidence indicates it does, and evidence indicates that Canada is more democratic than the US (if democracy is in fact some holy grail) in function and reality. So if Canada has more democracy with a constitutional monarch than the US has without it--and while that's a matter of opinion, I could give evidence for it--then the idea that the Canadian monarchy is fundamentally undemocratic is blown away by evidence. Not least of which is that I'm pretty sure Canadians would not tolerate the monarchy interfering with democracy (if it even can, which I doubt). If it did, all of you who are neutral or indifferent about the monarchy might pick a side, and vocally so.

We could always just discuss the subject thoughtfully and ignore the troll, who needs to go back to his high school debate team and listen to his coach. It's not a bad topic for the forum. I myself would like to know what specific powers the Queen/GG have under law in Canada. My assumption is that whatever they are, they are held by the Queen and delegated to the GG, who is nowadays always a Canadian and has been for many years. In short, that the Queen can exercise them any time she wants, but that it's a lot more convenient--and respectful of her Canadian subjects--to appoint one of them to represent her authority. (I assume the Queen chooses the GG, anyway. I could be wrong about that, too.)

Addendum: I grant that the monarchy isn't a topic of controversy in Canada, and don't mean to imply that it is. Just trying to make something educational (for me, if no one else) of the process, and to help steer it back north. So to speak.
I'm up for a discussion as you describe simply because I'se be learning as we go; always a good thing.

I do know that as posted above; the current seated PM submits a name, after some consideration and significant background checks, to her Majesty for her approval (rubber stamping) then an official ceremony follows. Should the Queen object to our proposed candidate; I'm sure there would be a reason that would probably satisfy scrutiny by citizens and hopefully thia process would already have taken place through back channels to avoid any semblance of embarrassment or conflict.

One can imagine the phone chat "oh goodness must we use him, that terrible moustache has got to go."
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,701 posts, read 8,775,044 times
Reputation: 7314
I'm bored now....onto other things
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Old 07-18-2013, 06:28 PM
 
18,326 posts, read 10,398,747 times
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Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I'm bored now....onto other things
Yeah; we wasted too much time on .........well, you understand.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:54 PM
 
558 posts, read 547,944 times
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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
You gotta be kidding , first your link has nothing to do with Canada and secondly your list represents symbolic approval or disapproval's from the Royal family on various issues, a veritable by appointment to her majesty a totally meaningless procedural relic from the past,

Your whole hate on the monarchy thingy seems to imply that Americas system of pseudo freedoms is a better form of government than Canadas, wake up to reality dude you're living in a very violent armed camp thats on the verge of going bankrupt,over run by illegals,a place where half the people pay no taxes and half the people are considered an entitlement class,then theirs rampant hate,racism and poverty in abundance and you are now seriously holding this form of monarchy free government up as a model people should seek to emulate? Basically all i'm seeing is your opinion with very few facts,
So again some examples of what is the monarchy going to force Canada to do that it doesnt want to do?
Actually, you're kidding yourself since the Queen of the UK is also the Queen of Canada, therefore if it's been revealed that the Queen has interfered in the UK, it's reasonable to believe that the same thing has or will happen in Canada. Although, maybe I shouldn't call it an interference since it is legal.

And then randomly you go on an angry tirade against US, even though this thread is about monarchy and my OP never compared America and Canada.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:02 PM
 
558 posts, read 547,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Again more opinions,maybe i'll throw a couple out there,
I'd like to see my southern neighbors become a gun free society, i'd like to see the second amendment scrapped Along with any form of stand your ground law.
I'd like to see our southern neighbors stop thinking themselves the worlds policeman and getting itself into other peoples conflicts.
Or thinking the American way is the best and every one should Strive to emulate the American way.
As for your "I want to see my northern neighbors monarchy free" dont worry we got everything under control and to our liking.input from southern neighbors like you is irrelevant and totally unnecessary, we got no problem with the monarchy,it seems only you have a problem with the monarchy...
Canada does have a monarchy, therefore what I said was actually fact and what you said was false.

Once again, I acknowledge all of America's problems, yet many Canadians such as yourself refuse to admit that monarchy is a problem.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:07 PM
 
558 posts, read 547,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Drknoble If you really want to take up the banner of Captain Freedom read some stories about the Quebec separatist government's ideas of freedom.
Quebec Language Laws

Monarchy? imagine living under some of these proposed rules and regulations
CBC.ca Montreal - Interactive - Highlights from Bill 14
that are a beefed up version of Bill101 =
BILL 101 - Quebec's not so quiet revolution
For some odd reason you're trying to paint the picture that the only choices are monarchy or absolute submission to Quebec's language laws.

Last edited by drknoble; 07-18-2013 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:28 PM
 
558 posts, read 547,944 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Agreed Jambo. We are wasting time with "this one".

Regardless of as much evidence to the contrary as one could possibly have garnered from this thread; "this one" still returns with the already beat to death surmisal that the Monarchy is "stifling democracy in Canada".

Not to mentions he chose Canada as his target for special villification when there are so many other countries still having a Monarchial presence AND who, it could be effectively argued, show a greater respect and practical enactment of democracy than the one he associates with being the very exemplar of that feature.

In order for his denouncement to have traction it should have been made clear at the outset we were not going to take him seriously until he managed to prove the superiority of his "brand" of democracy. A tough task, if not impossible, given current events.

I attempted on any number of occasions to compare with examples but of course got chided by a reasoned minded Canadian about making it all about the U.S. when in fact that is exactly what the O/P is all about, as witnessd by:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/groups/1443-merica.html

The comment "there's a war out there people and it's because they envy us in one form or another" should be all anybody needs read to understand where this one is coming from with regard to this and all future posts in the Canadian section. His X-Box has gone to his head.

Those of us around the planet already living within 'actually functioning' democracies and having the ability to compare them to "his" have shown remarkable restraint from simply calling his post bullcrap at the outset.

I would refer the O/P to Al-Jazeera and one of their many forums if he is serious about engaging any country OTHER than a functioning democracy in debating the merits of "his" example compared with one that is genuinely engaged in a "war' with it.

Oooopsy, that might bring with it some actual risk and retaliation as opposed to the reasoned restrained discussion from the envious country he's declared they're at "war" with to his north.

There's a war out there people Sheesh. Infantile!
More distractions. My message has been consistent, and that post was no different.

At that time, I was more angry because of the constant barrage of unfair US bashing, and that post was my response. But how does that change the legitimacy of this issue, which is being challenged in court?

I started this thread to gauge Canadian attitude towards the monarchy. And it's not good, because many Canadians would rather demonize those who speak out against monarchy and praise the ones who submit to this undemocratic institution.

Last edited by drknoble; 07-18-2013 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:36 PM
 
558 posts, read 547,944 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Why is it even an issue.

I swore allegiance to the Queen without meaning any of it. It is a formality to get your citizenship. Get over it. The Queen has less to do with Canada than the US secretary of state.

Those who think having a queen makes Canada less democratic is being simply stupid.
It's an issue because there's a pending court case that was brought upon by your fellow Canadian immigrants who understand that such an oath goes against the principles of equality and democracy. You should support them and not be dismissive.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:47 AM
 
103 posts, read 138,343 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by drknoble View Post
It's an issue because there's a pending court case that was brought upon by your fellow Canadian immigrants who understand that such an oath goes against the principles of equality and democracy. You should support them and not be dismissive.
The reason you don't see more people supporting them is were sick of having little by little taken away from us Canada is being changed and at some point we should have the right to say this is our country you want to come here great but you have to respect our ways of life and laws and not try to change it.
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