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Old 07-15-2013, 10:07 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,968,749 times
Reputation: 857

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Freedom is more important than safety, in my (and certainly most people's) opinion. That's why I'm against the idea of a police state. Gun control is not an extraordinarily significant attack on personal freedom, however, it is generally an aspect of a police state, and in some cases had led to more and more restrictions on liberties in the name of security. If we are to disarm society, I believe the first step is to go the UK route and disarm our police. Otherwise, it gives a position of power to the administration that I don't believe should exist. The people should have power over the government, not the other way around.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,747,894 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Do you have an opinion or theory about why it is more violent down there? Hasn't it always been more violent right from the very beginning? What could be the cause of that? I have often wondered about that and wondered if the plague of violence might actually be an unintended but direct consequence of the 2nd amendment. If the 2nd amendment and what it implies had not been written into the constitution is it possible that the nation would consequently have evolved into a less violent nation?

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Do you have a theory why violent crime has been in decline all over the country?
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:51 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,298 posts, read 6,617,848 times
Reputation: 14335
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

Do you have a theory why violent crime has been in decline all over the country?
I don't believe there has been a decline.

.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:56 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,747,894 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I don't believe there has been a decline.

.
Well there has been.
http://www.economist.com/node/21560870
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...a-is-safer-now
(Sorry to disappoint you Canadians)
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:54 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,298 posts, read 6,617,848 times
Reputation: 14335
I read all of those articles. Except for the conclusions (see below) noted in the last article, the others all said that the apparent decline is puzzling and nobody had an explanation for it. If there's really a decline in violence and nobody else has an explanation for it then there's no reason why I would have an explanation or theory for it either.

From the last article I read what's quoted below and I don't see how any of these 4 conclusions is an indication that violent crimes are actually on the decline. It seems more like law enforcement agencies have simply developed newer techniques and technologies for dealing with an ongoing problem as well as increasing incarceration. The drug explanation? Get rid of crack cocaine or PCP and the druggies replace it with crystal meth - what's the difference? Meth breeds just as much if not more crime and violence than other drugs.

The only one there that actually makes a modicum of sense to me is the 'graying of America' explanation. Maybe it's a case of 'with age comes wisdom' and the oldsters are realizing that guns and violence are not the answer, while most of the youngsters are too busy with their noses stuck in their iPhones to care about committing crimes. ?????

I still am most inclined to agree with the very last sentence. Crimes might be dropping over recent decades but I see no evidence of violence being on the decrease. If anything, it seems to me that violence is easier to commit and more extreme and shocking than it was a couple of decades ago.


Quote:


.... He and others give four main reasons for the decline:
  • Increased incarceration, including longer sentences, that keeps more criminals off the streets.
  • Improved law enforcement strategies, including advances in computer analysis and innovative technology.
  • The waning of the crack cocaine epidemic that soared from 1984 to 1990, which made cocaine cheaply available in cities across the US.
  • The graying of America characterized by the fastest-growing segment of the US population baby boomers passing the age of 50.
The data point to a persistent perception gap among Americans. Despite strong evidence of crime dropping over recent decades, the public sees the reverse.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:18 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,747,894 times
Reputation: 9029
Have you lived in any American cities in the 90s and today?
There is a very noticible difference in the decrease in crime rates in plenty of American cities.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:31 AM
 
34,461 posts, read 41,580,248 times
Reputation: 29930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post

I'm here to criticize this so-called Canadian perspective, jambo. Is it really so much trouble for you to, uhh, defend your perspective rather than relentlessly accuse me of not understanding what you've so blatantly illustrated since the beginning of this thread?
With no less than 6 topics on the Zimmerman/Martin case happening throughout the CD forums i thought it would be interesting to have a perspective from just Canadians as the story is plastered all over our news media, obviously its not in your nature Montguy to respect that perspective so whether you are relevant to the topic or not you will continue to insert your American perspective..
Thanks to those Canadians for participating,very interesting reading..
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:43 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,298 posts, read 6,617,848 times
Reputation: 14335
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

Have you lived in any American cities in the 90s and today?
Nope, and I wouldn't want to although I have had the opportunity on more than one occassion. Over the past 50 years I've taken many road trips all over the States and it's always been an interesting place to visit but I feel more comfortable and safer living on this side of the border. Here if I want to go wandering off to the corner store late at night I'm not concerned about some paranoid vigilante neighbourhood watch guy with a gun stalking me and killing me even after the police have told him to stand down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post

There is a very noticible difference in the decrease in crime rates in plenty of American cities.
If it pleases you to believe that then have at it. I'm happy for you and your increased peace of mind.

.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:43 AM
 
34,461 posts, read 41,580,248 times
Reputation: 29930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
So he should have waited to hear the first, crisp crack of his skull before defending himself? Using your logic, a cop should take one in the chest before he should fire his weapon. This is too silly.
Zimmerman should never have put himself in that position in the first place, he was a neighborhood watch guy not a police officer, he had no business stalking some one the way he did,the kid had done nothing wrong!.
i would think Treyvon seeing this weird guy stalking him got the impression this stalker was up to no good and probably meant to do Treyvon harm so he jumped the guy to protect himself.
To now let Zimmerman walk free with no accountability from a shooting he was totally responsible for orchestrating is outrageous.
To my way of thinking these Stand your ground laws are nothing more than a license to kill http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/

Last edited by jambo101; 07-16-2013 at 01:55 AM..
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,924 posts, read 31,815,566 times
Reputation: 12655
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1282 View Post
No you can protect yourself if you feel threaten
So then since Travon Martin surely also felt threatened, had he killed Zimmerman do you think he would have been acquitted? It is a bad law because there is no way of knowing if the dead guy felt threatened....They were both defending themselves...Wanna be cops are dangerous people.
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