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Old 07-14-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1282 View Post
No you can protect yourself if you feel threaten
While we respect your input Steve it would be nice if we could keep this topic as a Canadian perspective, there are dozens of American topics on the issue. thanks
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,570 posts, read 2,812,476 times
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Both Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin made mistakes, but Zimmerman should not have made himself the local judge, jury and executioner, deciding who seemed to fit in and who didn't, and then to pursue and harass someone who he profiled as being out-of-place and possibly up to no good.

But I do believe that, under Florida law, Zimmerman is innocent of murder. These "Stand your Ground" laws are complete BS, and allow people to create a dangerous situation and then kill someone when the situation they instigated becomes potentially life-threatening, and claim self-defence. I personally believe that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or criminal negligence causing death, but certainly not second-degree murder. But I doubt he will be convicted of anything, because what he did was perfectly legal under Florida law. The cops never would have arrested him, nor the DA charged him if it weren't for the public outrage and pressure. This case has become more about race than whether or not Zimmerman broke Florida law - which he doesn't seem to have done.

My prediction - not guilty.

If this were Canada, it would be illegal for him to be armed with a handgun in public in the first place, so any death that resulted would make him automatically guilty of unauthorized possession of a dangerous weapon, and certainly third-degree murder. However, if he were not armed with a handgun, but a baseball bat, and clubbed Trayvon to death under the same circumstances, I still believe he would be found guilty of third-degree murder under Canadian law. Canadian law makes very few exceptions for self-defence that results in a death. I don't think his actions would qualify as one of those exceptions. Even in Canada, I don't believe they could make second degree murder charges stick because there was no mens rea, or malice aforethought - just stupidity, fear, and bad judgement on Zimmerman's part.

Last edited by TOkidd; 07-14-2013 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:07 AM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,371,545 times
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Here's another opinion not having been given much discussion:

To what extent did George feel emboldened to follow this kid around in the dark by having his Kal-Tec on his person.

Would an otherwise sensible, mature, of average intelligence person shown restraint and perhaps resisted the urge to put himself in harm's way.

Would he indeed, had he not been packing, simply stayed in his truck and resorted ONLY to the phone interchange he finally used in any case?

Would the both of them simply played this out in the normal manner of Neighbourhood watch guy NOT on duty alerting authorities and allowing nature to take it's course with the both of them remaining alive?

In this context; does the carrying of a weapon perhaps contribute to a false sense of immunity from lifes tendancy to bite your azz should you take an unnecessary risk upon yourself?

Given the result in this particular case, where two polarized demogrphics of American citizenry are now left to deal with the fallout, a young man is dead, whether of questionable moral fibre or not, he's still dead, the survivor's life has been forever altered in a way he could never have anticipated, an unprecedented interferance in the justice process of a state by a sitting President, the legal community now having another in a long list of media influenced debacles in it's resume; I cannot but wonder if any of that would have resulted had George not had his personal firearm with him that evening and had been forced to consider his personal safety and security without that weapon.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Much is made of this head slamming incident, i saw the pics of the back of Zimmermans head, seemed to be very minor , how many slams are we talking about?
How many times would you let your head be slammed into the concrete before you felt your life was in danger?

Under Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' law, if you are the victim of a violent assault, you can respond with deadly force. As such, it doesn't matter if it was one slam or twenty. The initial assault was enough to provide Zimmerman with legal justification to draw and shoot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
But I do believe that, under Florida law, Zimmerman is innocent of murder. These "Stand your Ground" laws are complete BS, and allow people to create a dangerous situation and then kill someone when the situation they instigated becomes potentially life-threatening, and claim self-defence. I personally believe that Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter or criminal negligence causing death, but certainly not second-degree murder. But I doubt he will be convicted of anything, because what he did was perfectly legal under Florida law. The cops never would have arrested him, nor the DA charged him if it weren't for the public outrage and pressure. This case has become more about race than whether or not Zimmerman broke Florida law - which he doesn't seem to have done.
Exactly. This is why it took 45 days for the DA to file charges against him. Under Florida law, the case was a losing battle for the prosecution. Once you got past the racism smokescreen, it was very clear that Zimmerman was going to walk.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:46 AM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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To me, Zimmerman is a murderer. If Martin had been a white kid, there would be universal support for Zimmerman's conviction. But because he was black, in the racist world that we live in, that means the white man is innocent and the black man is guilty.

What Would You Do? Bike Theft (White Guy, Black Guy, Pretty Girl) - YouTube
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
But I do believe that, under Florida law, Zimmerman is innocent of murder.
.In this case i'd stick with the found not guilt rather than the innocent designation

I still keep thinking our wannabe cop pulled a "Make My Day Punk" move on Treyvon
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/32772747.jpg
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
2,540 posts, read 3,270,826 times
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I will point out that the Criminal Code of Canada does NOT have a "third degree murder charge ".

It goes like this....First Degree Murder is when a person dies, as a result of a planned, premeditated, and calculated act.

Second degree murder is when the act is spontaneous, and not pre planned, but death results anyway.

Manslaughter is an act that results in a death, but the act is not intended to cause death, but death results .

In all of the above situations.........INTENT is the key determining factor, in deciding which charge to lay, and at trial, the jury's decision should be ( In Canada ) based on evidence as to intent, opportunity, and means to commit the offence.

In my opinion, if neither of these two had access to a hand gun, the outcome would have been a fist fight, not a murder.

Jim B

Toronto.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,320,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
But because he was black, in the racist world that we live in, that means the white man is innocent and the black man is guilty.
Wrong. If Trayvon had of been white, there would not have been any charges filed in the first place. This was a clear-cut Stand Your Ground case. The DA took 45 days to file charges against Zimmerman because of public outcry in the black community over one of their own once again gunned down by an evil white man.

Do you really think that the Florida homicide cops, who investigate these kinds of cases daily, are too incompetent to be able to examine the physical evidence at the scene and effectively deduce whether or not a crime has been committed?
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:41 AM
 
5,331 posts, read 1,996,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
We have no proof that the young boy would have continued to beat up Zimmerman until he was dead...
We don't need it. All beatings, especially to the head, are potentially life threatening. Period. That's the view that both medical science and the law takes. That's the view that the jury took. One punch can kill a man, and often does. Real life fights and their outcomes are not like in the movies. All of the "he was following him and so the beating was justified" cowboys need to step out of their fantasy world and realize this to be more informed participants in our society.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:20 AM
 
34,377 posts, read 41,463,803 times
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The way i see it Zimmerman initiated the whole situation by following the kid , he could have easily waited till the cops arrived and then pointed them in the direction of where he'd seen the kid but our wannabe cop just had to put himself in a situation where he had to defend himself,a situation that he may have been looking for all along, wonder how he would have handled the situation if he didnt have the gun?
Rather frustrating that we only get zimmermans side of the story and have to speculate on so much of the Treyvon side.
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