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Old 07-18-2013, 09:33 AM
 
18,341 posts, read 10,411,152 times
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http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/f...al-experiments


Anyone else find this revelation to be of a particularly abhorrent nature?

What now? Calls for apologies, investigations, food supply guarantees emanating out of the native community would seem to be the least of the public shame we're going to experience over this.

How should we effectively respond today to what happened then?

What actions should we expect our Federal government to take, addressing the past and the future?

How does one reasonably address such an atrocity?

Last edited by BruSan; 07-18-2013 at 09:45 AM..
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:49 AM
 
103 posts, read 138,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
First Nations leaders demand apology for nutritional experiments - News - MSN CA


Anyone else find this revelation to be of a particularly abhorrent nature?

What now? Calls for apologies, investigations, food supply guarantees emanating out of the native community would seem to be the least of the public shame we're going to experience over this.

How should we effectively respond today to what happened then?

What actions should we expect our Federal government to take, addressing the past and the future?

How does one reasonably address such an atrocity?
While changes need to be made but there has to be give and take by both sides that might mean leaders of the reserves have less power as for the feds they need to work better with all groups.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,694 posts, read 6,549,724 times
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Originally Posted by jayme2015 View Post
While changes need to be made but there has to be give and take by both sides that might mean leaders of the reserves have less power as for the feds they need to work better with all groups.
There seems to be an inherent contradiction between an article about the fed experimenting on Native children and the idea that this should mean "leaders of the reserves have less power," doesn't there?

I am not saying I know what the answer is, only that it is a shame and an embarrassment to us as a country, but I am pretty sure that if the leaders of the reserves had had more power instead of less at that time, and it had been explained to them what was being done, it probably would not have been done, along with the kidnapping of children from their parents to be sent to boarding schools.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:26 PM
 
103 posts, read 138,383 times
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Originally Posted by netwit View Post
There seems to be an inherent contradiction between an article about the fed experimenting on Native children and the idea that this should mean "leaders of the reserves have less power," doesn't there?

I am not saying I know what the answer is, only that it is a shame and an embarrassment to us as a country, but I am pretty sure that if the leaders of the reserves had had more power instead of less at that time, and it had been explained to them what was being done, it probably would not have been done, along with the kidnapping of children from their parents to be sent to boarding schools.
By less power one thing i would like to see is in extreme cases the feds can't be blocked from coming on to the reserves.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:29 PM
 
18,341 posts, read 10,411,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
There seems to be an inherent contradiction between an article about the fed experimenting on Native children and the idea that this should mean "leaders of the reserves have less power," doesn't there?

I am not saying I know what the answer is, only that it is a shame and an embarrassment to us as a country, but I am pretty sure that if the leaders of the reserves had had more power instead of less at that time, and it had been explained to them what was being done, it probably would not have been done, along with the kidnapping of children from their parents to be sent to boarding schools.
I believe I understand what Jayme is attempting to address.

The problems of today on some of the reserves, are not solely due to Can. government manufacture.

I think a good point could be made for stepping in to address those parts of the reserve's claim that food deliverance and maintenance of those services necessary to a more healthy lifestyle might demand the reserve leadership spend less money on new toys and more on essential services instead.

The problems of the reserves vis-a-vis government duplicity of the past are going to be far more simplistic in nature. One thing that can be done is to apologize such as was done to Japanese interned and robbed of their titled property holdings during WWII.

This should be done in a manner in keeping with ensuring no such travesty like starvation should ever re-occur. Perhaps re-visiting treaties and adding codicils after discussions and agreement to address those particular issues that keep cropping up over decades would be a way to go.

Past grievances should not be linked to present ones in any attempt to instill generational guilt as is too often the modus-operendi.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:49 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,298 posts, read 6,617,848 times
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Quote:

Past grievances should not be linked to present ones in any attempt to instill generational guilt as is too often the modus-operendi.
I agree with this. ^

Yes I think it's abhorrent but I think I need to digest the news a bit more. I don't want to post a misinformed knee-jerk reaction. I'm still reeling a bit after hearing the news about it last night. I shouldn't have been shocked to hear it but I was, nonetheless.

I have had native friends who were in the residential schools, and friends whose family or family members were Japanese Canadians relocated to isolated towns in B.C. so I have heard a few first-hand stories about their conditions.

Apologies and financial redress is helpful but it doesn't ease the emotional anguish from the past for those people.

I think something more is needed. Fullest disclosure.

I'd really like to see a full investigation take place and the results made public so I can learn more about this particular incident of nutritional experimentation. I also wonder if aboriginals in residential schools were not the only people this was happening with and if perhaps there were other non-aboriginal people and communities where same or similar nutritional tests were being conducted.

I would like to see an array of investigations take place because just hearing this latest news I have to wonder what other kinds of tests or violations might have happened with all kinds of people that we don't know about, that still remain hidden and unacknowledged.

We can't change whatever happened in the past but present day investigation and acknowledgement of past happenings may help to prevent future violations.

.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:56 PM
 
103 posts, read 138,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I agree with this. ^

Yes I think it's abhorrent but I think I need to digest the news a bit more. I don't want to post a misinformed knee-jerk reaction. I'm still reeling a bit after hearing the news about it last night. I shouldn't have been shocked to hear it but I was, nonetheless.

I have had native friends who were in the residential schools, and friends whose family or family members were Japanese Canadians relocated to isolated towns in B.C. so I have heard a few first-hand stories about their conditions.

Apologies and financial redress is helpful but it doesn't ease the emotional anguish from the past for those people.

I think something more is needed. Fullest disclosure.

I'd really like to see a full investigation take place and the results made public so I can learn more about this particular incident of nutritional experimentation. I also wonder if aboriginals in residential schools were not the only people this was happening with and if perhaps there were other non-aboriginal people and communities where same or similar nutritional tests were being conducted.

I would like to see an array of investigations take place because just hearing this latest news I have to wonder what other kinds of tests or violations might have happened with all kinds of people that we don't know about, that still remain hidden and unacknowledged.

We can't change whatever happened in the past but present day investigation and acknowledgement of past happenings may help to prevent future violations.

.
The only way thing will change is if all are looked at that means yes looking at how the feds handle things but also how the leaders of the reserves handle matters.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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I suggest that if the native communities all across Canada can't enjoy the benefits that all the rest of us Canadians take for granted they should take their huge lands in the north and LEAVE Canada. What right does Canada have to these lands if the country can not support the population. Even the freakin Soviets understood this concept and the lives of the Siberian natives were 1000 times better than ours. Canada should lose sovereignty of these territories if we can't get these "people of the land" a better deal. A few years back the Russians were actually questioning Canada's right to these territories because we do not PRACTISE sovereignty over them.
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:33 PM
 
103 posts, read 138,383 times
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Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I suggest that if the native communities all across Canada can't enjoy the benefits that all the rest of us Canadians take for granted they should take their huge lands in the north and LEAVE Canada. What right does Canada have to these lands if the country can not support the population. Even the freakin Soviets understood this concept and the lives of the Siberian natives were 1000 times better than ours. Canada should lose sovereignty of these territories if we can't get these "people of the land" a better deal. A few years back the Russians were actually questioning Canada's right to these territories because we do not PRACTISE sovereignty over them.
Think about what you just said for a minute Canada should lose sovereignty meaning Natives would get no help from Canada which the end result things would be 10 times worse.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,585,797 times
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Originally Posted by jayme2015 View Post
Think about what you just said for a minute Canada should lose sovereignty meaning Natives would get no help from Canada which the end result things would be 10 times worse.
I'm quite sure they couldn't do a worse job of it than colonial Canada has done for them. The Cree in Northern Quebec give us a very good picture what Native Canadians are capable of if left to their own devices. "Help" from Canada!!! Is that a joke or are you totally unaware of the conditions on remote reserves. I`m a very proud and patriotic Canadian and the black stain on Canada because of the truly God awful treatment of the Native peoples of this country just hurts me right in the heart, very much.
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