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Old 07-26-2013, 06:22 AM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,455 posts, read 3,754,840 times
Reputation: 9602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
I'm sure that the millions of Americans who cannot afford health insurance would love a Canadian-style health care system. But I'm wondering, who are these "certain people" who are forced to pay for the health care of others, because I thought that anyone who paid taxes was contributing to our health care system? Actually, it is a fact that the very wealthiest citizens pay the least taxes proportionately, because they are able to afford lawyers and accountants to help them exploit every loophole and help them hide their earnings in off-shore accounts. The amount of money these ultra-wealthy Canadians avoid in taxes every year would more than make up for the lost taxes from the 7-odd percent of Canadians who are currently unemployed. However, there are those - no doubt, you count yourself among them - that are just wealthy enough to feel they pay too much in taxes to support those "bums" who contribute nothing to our country, but not wealthy enough to afford the aforementioned lawyers and accountants to assist you in evading taxation. But I wonder, where is your indignation towards these ultra-rich tax cheaters, or the corporations who pay among the lowest tax rate in the developed world in our country, yet still stash most of their money overseas so that they don't have to pay what they are asked? Or do you just reserve your disdain for those who are less fortunate?

In regards to your second point, you are suggesting that people with more money should be able to buy better health care than people with less; that they are somehow more worthy of excellent health care because they are fortunate enough to be among the small group of Canadians that can be considered "wealthy". This is exactly the kind of elitist crap that the Canadian philosophy towards healthcare rejects - that money should be able to buy you better health care. The fact is, most people in Canada do NOT want a health care system that ensures the rich are better cared for than the middle classes and the poor. When polled, the vast majority of Canadians have agreed that our health care system should remain egalitarian, and that no one should be able to buy better care just because they are wealthier. In my experience, Canada's health care institutions offer first-rate care to all comers. If the rich don't think it's good enough for them, then perhaps they can travel to the US where you can rent an entire hospital wing for yourself if you have the money to do so (Inside Beyonce's $1.3 Million Hospital Suite). Canadians overwhelmingly do not want this kind of system, and I believe that a nation-wide poll taken not long ago found that 94% of Canadians considered our health care system to be a source of tremendous national pride (Poll: Canadians are most proud of universal medicare | CTV News).

In regards to your third point, that nothing should be free - you know damn well that health care is not "free" in Canada or anywhere else. We all pay into it, and the majority of Canadians do not find it unfair that some use the system more than others, or some pay more than others. Eventually, all of us will grow old or become ill, and at that point we will be able to "cash in" on the many years we have spent paying into the system. Typically, it is those who have the most who tend to complain that they pay too much, while griping that the poor pay practically nothing while often requiring the most health care. From reading many of your previous posts, your elitist sensibilities have been quite consistent, as you have often showed outright disdain for the less fortunate of your fellow citizens. Your objectivist outlook may be popular among some segments of the population (namely, wealthy conservatives who are loathe to share their wealth with the less fortunate through taxes), but Canadians are generally content to pay taxes to support social programs, knowing that it may be them who need health care or disability or unemployment one day. It is typically the middle class and low-income earners who complain the least about this, while those who have the most to give - the high-income earners - complain the most about taxes and social programs. Go figure. Furthermore, just about every other developed country on Earth has embraced universal health care, with several European countries taking it much further than Canadians have (among them, the French and the Scandanavians). In this sense, the US is an outlier. And so are you.
yes, all of this!

Best regards, sincerely,

HomeIsWhere...
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:54 PM
 
18,269 posts, read 10,371,545 times
Reputation: 13329
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOkidd View Post
I'm sure that the millions of Americans who cannot afford health insurance would love a Canadian-style health care system. But I'm wondering, who are these "certain people" who are forced to pay for the health care of others, because I thought that anyone who paid taxes was contributing to our health care system? Actually, it is a fact that the very wealthiest citizens pay the least taxes proportionately, because they are able to afford lawyers and accountants to help them exploit every loophole and help them hide their earnings in off-shore accounts. The amount of money these ultra-wealthy Canadians avoid in taxes every year would more than make up for the lost taxes from the 7-odd percent of Canadians who are currently unemployed. However, there are those - no doubt, you count yourself among them - that are just wealthy enough to feel they pay too much in taxes to support those "bums" who contribute nothing to our country, but not wealthy enough to afford the aforementioned lawyers and accountants to assist you in evading taxation. But I wonder, where is your indignation towards these ultra-rich tax cheaters, or the corporations who pay among the lowest tax rate in the developed world in our country, yet still stash most of their money overseas so that they don't have to pay what they are asked? Or do you just reserve your disdain for those who are less fortunate?

In regards to your second point, you are suggesting that people with more money should be able to buy better health care than people with less; that they are somehow more worthy of excellent health care because they are fortunate enough to be among the small group of Canadians that can be considered "wealthy". This is exactly the kind of elitist crap that the Canadian philosophy towards healthcare rejects - that money should be able to buy you better health care. The fact is, most people in Canada do NOT want a health care system that ensures the rich are better cared for than the middle classes and the poor. When polled, the vast majority of Canadians have agreed that our health care system should remain egalitarian, and that no one should be able to buy better care just because they are wealthier. In my experience, Canada's health care institutions offer first-rate care to all comers. If the rich don't think it's good enough for them, then perhaps they can travel to the US where you can rent an entire hospital wing for yourself if you have the money to do so (Inside Beyonce's $1.3 Million Hospital Suite). Canadians overwhelmingly do not want this kind of system, and I believe that a nation-wide poll taken not long ago found that 94% of Canadians considered our health care system to be a source of tremendous national pride (Poll: Canadians are most proud of universal medicare | CTV News).

In regards to your third point, that nothing should be free - you know damn well that health care is not "free" in Canada or anywhere else. We all pay into it, and the majority of Canadians do not find it unfair that some use the system more than others, or some pay more than others. Eventually, all of us will grow old or become ill, and at that point we will be able to "cash in" on the many years we have spent paying into the system. Typically, it is those who have the most who tend to complain that they pay too much, while griping that the poor pay practically nothing while often requiring the most health care. From reading many of your previous posts, your elitist sensibilities have been quite consistent, as you have often showed outright disdain for the less fortunate of your fellow citizens. Your objectivist outlook may be popular among some segments of the population (namely, wealthy conservatives who are loathe to share their wealth with the less fortunate through taxes), but Canadians are generally content to pay taxes to support social programs, knowing that it may be them who need health care or disability or unemployment one day. It is typically the middle class and low-income earners who complain the least about this, while those who have the most to give - the high-income earners - complain the most about taxes and social programs. Go figure. Furthermore, just about every other developed country on Earth has embraced universal health care, with several European countries taking it much further than Canadians have (among them, the French and the Scandanavians). In this sense, the US is an outlier. And so are you.
Boy; you nailed it!

I would add, as a middle class blue collar tradesman, I considered it a very fortunate thing indeed to be lucky enough to never require unemployment insurance my entire working life and did not begrudge "my share" going to someone who did.

I also am a member of a huge fraternity of people who will consider it a privilege to fund a health care system that will undoubtedly service those who otherwise would not be able to afford to provide their family that most important necessity of life.

I will not for one second regret paying those taxes should I never have need of that very healthcare.

I consider myself most fortunate indeed to live in a country that will, as a nation, put it's values of a compassionate populace over and above it's ability to garner personal wealth.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:17 PM
 
12,886 posts, read 15,429,995 times
Reputation: 14853
I'd like knowing that no matter who you are, or what your "class" in life, medical care IS available. I'd rather see taxes pay for that than being sqandered on something that most people don't even know about...like nasa at 17.7 billion dollers last year....that to me is appalling, when so many people can't even afford their medicines. Yes the canadian health system is faaaar better, as no one is turned away.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:37 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,260,811 times
Reputation: 7581
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
I'd like knowing that no matter who you are, or what your "class" in life, medical care IS available. I'd rather see taxes pay for that than being sqandered on something that most people don't even know about...like nasa at 17.7 billion dollers last year....that to me is appalling, when so many people can't even afford their medicines. Yes the canadian health system is faaaar better, as no one is turned away.
most people seem to think the US military hegemony has nothing to do with average American's standard of living?

With the military, the US won't be able to plunder wealth from every corner of the globe.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:52 PM
 
12,886 posts, read 15,429,995 times
Reputation: 14853
you mean "without"?..right?
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Oakville, ON
377 posts, read 1,515,559 times
Reputation: 428
Oh look another healthcare debate where us Canadians can show Americans how intellectually and morally superior we are. Oh goody.

How about another topic on gun control while we're at it?
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,570 posts, read 2,812,476 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberated in TO View Post
Oh look another healthcare debate where us Canadians can show Americans how intellectually and morally superior we are. Oh goody.

How about another topic on gun control while we're at it?
Hey, when did you move to Oakville? Didn't you used to live in North York?

Sorry for going off-topic here
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:35 AM
 
6,559 posts, read 9,071,345 times
Reputation: 2837
How can hospital cost like these be better controlled?






Expensive Hospital Bills,Why? - YouTube
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:40 AM
 
6,559 posts, read 9,071,345 times
Reputation: 2837
^

Is there a market approach for controlling those costs?
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:41 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,260,811 times
Reputation: 7581
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
you mean "without"?..right?
yes, typo.
The US military expenses not only help maintaining American's high living standards, but all its western "allies" (minions) as well. I mean, how often do the Canadian media and government criticize military aggression of American troops?
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