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Old 07-24-2013, 01:33 AM
 
6,565 posts, read 9,074,058 times
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As some of you Canadians may know there are Americans who feel the best solution for America's health care is a "medicare for all" system similar to what you have in Canada. My question is how would such a system actually work in the U.S? Is it realistic for the U.S? I ask because I've often read how there can be issues with wait times with the Canadian system that I think many American medicare for all advocates seem to be unaware of.

So if the U.S did adopt a medicare for all system how would Americans avoid the issues talked about in this link? Would U.S wait times be longer because of our population size?

No progress in wait times for health care in Canada: report
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:22 AM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,480,724 times
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How would a Canadian system work in the USA ? probably for most people a whole lot better than the current system in the USA where it seems 35-40 million Americans simply cant afford the cost of healthcare or due to regulations dont Qualify for health insurance.
Granted any universal healthcare system will have some problems one of which is it aint free so your taxes may rise a little depending on how much you make,
Waiting times? i've never experienced what i would call extraordinary waiting times here in Montreal,certainly there are times either at the hospital or a doctors private office where you may get to wait a while or if you need a procedure done the schedule may be a week or a month in the future if not critical but on the whole i'd rather wait a while than be expected to pay enormous sums of money some one who isnt insured would be expected to pay in a similar situation in the USA.
Basically a universal healthcare plan guarantees you healthcare from cradle to grave period,if you are alive you're covered.
No loopholes, no pre existing conditions,no caps or co-pays, no losing your coverage if you lose your job etc,,
Do you really think all this is preferrable to a universal healthcare plan?
http://www.city-data.com/forum/health-insurance/

While theres pros and cons to both systems i prefer the Canadian system.

Last edited by jambo101; 07-24-2013 at 05:23 AM..
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:47 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,265,341 times
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I don't think most Americans WANT the Canadian healthcare system, which essentially forces certain people to pay for the health cost for others.

In addition, this no matter now rich you are, you can only get the same service in Canada type of regulation is not fair.

And let me stress it again, doctor's visits should not be free. Ideally, nothing should be free.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
10,902 posts, read 23,184,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think most Americans WANT the Canadian healthcare system, which essentially forces certain people to pay for the health cost for others.

In addition, this no matter now rich you are, you can only get the same service in Canada type of regulation is not fair.

And let me stress it again, doctor's visits should not be free. Ideally, nothing should be free.
They are not "free" the doctors bill the Provincial Government which comes out of your taxes to cover it.

Also a preventive medical system works better than one that waits till you are ill to begin to treat you.

It costs alot less to keep people healthy then try to get them healthy after they fall ill.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,593 posts, read 11,079,658 times
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Canada's system wouldn't work. It's a crazy argument to begin with, as you have 50 states that can regulate everything differently.

Really the probable best solution is something along a two-tiered approach. Everyone pays into a basic pool for general coverage for everyone, and if you have the funds/employer you can buy added insurance that gets you outside the "public" system and shorter queues, on demand services etc.

Living in the U.S. it's staggering to see how much people abuse their insurance and coverage. Doctors and clinics happily play along, as it's more billing for them. Just tests after tests and MRI's and scans and specialists when really it's not all necessary.

You could solve a number of the issues with Canada's system if you had more primary care physicians, and kept the boo-boos out of the ER and overloading hospitals with skinned knees, and you could greatly reduce costs in the U.S. by insurance companies saying no every now and then.

JMHO YMMV
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,570 posts, read 2,813,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think most Americans WANT the Canadian healthcare system, which essentially forces certain people to pay for the health cost for others.

In addition, this no matter now rich you are, you can only get the same service in Canada type of regulation is not fair.

And let me stress it again, doctor's visits should not be free. Ideally, nothing should be free.
I'm sure that the millions of Americans who cannot afford health insurance would love a Canadian-style health care system. But I'm wondering, who are these "certain people" who are forced to pay for the health care of others, because I thought that anyone who paid taxes was contributing to our health care system? Actually, it is a fact that the very wealthiest citizens pay the least taxes proportionately, because they are able to afford lawyers and accountants to help them exploit every loophole and help them hide their earnings in off-shore accounts. The amount of money these ultra-wealthy Canadians avoid in taxes every year would more than make up for the lost taxes from the 7-odd percent of Canadians who are currently unemployed. However, there are those - no doubt, you count yourself among them - that are just wealthy enough to feel they pay too much in taxes to support those "bums" who contribute nothing to our country, but not wealthy enough to afford the aforementioned lawyers and accountants to assist you in evading taxation. But I wonder, where is your indignation towards these ultra-rich tax cheaters, or the corporations who pay among the lowest tax rate in the developed world in our country, yet still stash most of their money overseas so that they don't have to pay what they are asked? Or do you just reserve your disdain for those who are less fortunate?

In regards to your second point, you are suggesting that people with more money should be able to buy better health care than people with less; that they are somehow more worthy of excellent health care because they are fortunate enough to be among the small group of Canadians that can be considered "wealthy". This is exactly the kind of elitist crap that the Canadian philosophy towards healthcare rejects - that money should be able to buy you better health care. The fact is, most people in Canada do NOT want a health care system that ensures the rich are better cared for than the middle classes and the poor. When polled, the vast majority of Canadians have agreed that our health care system should remain egalitarian, and that no one should be able to buy better care just because they are wealthier. In my experience, Canada's health care institutions offer first-rate care to all comers. If the rich don't think it's good enough for them, then perhaps they can travel to the US where you can rent an entire hospital wing for yourself if you have the money to do so (Inside Beyonce's $1.3 Million Hospital Suite). Canadians overwhelmingly do not want this kind of system, and I believe that a nation-wide poll taken not long ago found that 94% of Canadians considered our health care system to be a source of tremendous national pride (Poll: Canadians are most proud of universal medicare | CTV News).

In regards to your third point, that nothing should be free - you know damn well that health care is not "free" in Canada or anywhere else. We all pay into it, and the majority of Canadians do not find it unfair that some use the system more than others, or some pay more than others. Eventually, all of us will grow old or become ill, and at that point we will be able to "cash in" on the many years we have spent paying into the system. Typically, it is those who have the most who tend to complain that they pay too much, while griping that the poor pay practically nothing while often requiring the most health care. From reading many of your previous posts, your elitist sensibilities have been quite consistent, as you have often showed outright disdain for the less fortunate of your fellow citizens. Your objectivist outlook may be popular among some segments of the population (namely, wealthy conservatives who are loathe to share their wealth with the less fortunate through taxes), but Canadians are generally content to pay taxes to support social programs, knowing that it may be them who need health care or disability or unemployment one day. It is typically the middle class and low-income earners who complain the least about this, while those who have the most to give - the high-income earners - complain the most about taxes and social programs. Go figure. Furthermore, just about every other developed country on Earth has embraced universal health care, with several European countries taking it much further than Canadians have (among them, the French and the Scandanavians). In this sense, the US is an outlier. And so are you.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:49 AM
 
103 posts, read 138,240 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
Canada's system wouldn't work. It's a crazy argument to begin with, as you have 50 states that can regulate everything differently.

Really the probable best solution is something along a two-tiered approach. Everyone pays into a basic pool for general coverage for everyone, and if you have the funds/employer you can buy added insurance that gets you outside the "public" system and shorter queues, on demand services etc.

Living in the U.S. it's staggering to see how much people abuse their insurance and coverage. Doctors and clinics happily play along, as it's more billing for them. Just tests after tests and MRI's and scans and specialists when really it's not all necessary.

You could solve a number of the issues with Canada's system if you had more primary care physicians, and kept the boo-boos out of the ER and overloading hospitals with skinned knees, and you could greatly reduce costs in the U.S. by insurance companies saying no every now and then.

JMHO YMMV
Er is a huge issue i once heard if people would go to clinics etc you would cut the wait time down by 40%.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:11 AM
 
1,723 posts, read 5,141,542 times
Reputation: 1351
Canada has 10 provinces that each run their own health care systems. Why couldn't 50 states do the same thing?
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:33 AM
 
34,389 posts, read 41,480,724 times
Reputation: 29864
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think most Americans WANT the Canadian healthcare system, which essentially forces certain people to pay for the health cost for others.

In addition, this no matter now rich you are, you can only get the same service in Canada type of regulation is not fair.

And let me stress it again, doctor's visits should not be free. Ideally, nothing should be free.

With a universal health care system every one pays in and when you need healthcare its there for you to draw on.
If you happen to be rich or want to advance any waiting times depending on what the problem is you can visit a private clinic or head down to the USA, Now while these private clinics wont be doing major surgery you can certainly get much small stuff taken care of if you so chose and dont mind paying the money.
Last year i needed a minor surgery,during the consultation at the hospital the doctor said you can go through the medicare system which is free but could take a month or two for you to get scheduled in or we can do it at my private clinic for $500 tomorrow morning.,, 9;30 be OK?
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:43 AM
 
103 posts, read 138,240 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
With a universal health care system every one pays in and when you need healthcare its there for you to draw on.
If you happen to be rich or want to advance any waiting times depending on what the problem is you can visit a private clinic or head down to the USA, Now while these private clinics wont be doing major surgery you can certainly get much small stuff taken care of if you so chose and dont mind paying the money.
Last year i needed a minor surgery,during the consultation at the hospital the doctor said you can go through the medicare system which is free but could take a month or two for you to get scheduled in or we can do it at my private clinic for $500 tomorrow morning.,, 9;30 be OK?
About 10 years ago i had my gallbladder out it was a long wait but if i was in the States there is no way i would have been able to afford it.
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