U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-21-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8603

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Nope. I did a little searching and it's much more calculated and political than just some saying " trucks " and some saying " lorry ".

This quote is interesting.

"The inconvenient fact that the word 'ARRÊT' is not really proper French to describe the act of coming to a stop at an intersection was of no matter. The word ARRÊT' can be best used to describe a stop as in a "Bus Stop" In fact the proper French word for coming to a halt at an intersection is.......wait for it.....STOP or STOPPEZ."

from this site.... No Dogs or Anglophones: Only in Quebec is a STOP sign a Language Issue.

OK really political...

Quebec activists want English stop signs to 'arret' | CTV News

.
You could also put ARRÊTEZ which would also be correct in French.

But still, nothing says that you have to use the imperative verb form (giving an order) on this type of sign. A noun (this is the place where you stop) is every bit as acceptable as an order (hey you, stop now).

No parking signs don't say DO NOT PARK HERE generally. They don't give an order either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-21-2013, 10:15 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,706,160 times
Reputation: 3109
I am always fascinated by word origins. I checked up on 'STOP' and of course it has specific meanings in specific contexts.
This one belw intrigued me. Metaphorically speaking, it kind of gives a picture of the aural environment between the PQ and everybody else. Maybe no wonder some people think no one's listening..;-).....



from Old English stoppian (unattested), as in forstoppian to plug the ear,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,691 posts, read 8,759,917 times
Reputation: 7309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You could also put ARRÊTEZ which would also be correct in French.

But still, nothing says that you have to use the imperative verb form (giving an order) on this type of sign. A noun (this is the place where you stop) is every bit as acceptable as an order (hey you, stop now).

No parking signs don't say DO NOT PARK HERE generally. They don't give an order either.
Yes, but the part that is interesting is as to why Quebec didn't just use STOP, since in France, the bastion of the language, they do.

History of the word.

Online Etymology Dictionary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,541,240 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
But not all places in the world use STOP. Some places in Latin America use PARE or ALTO. Even Puerto Rico which is sort of part of the US uses PARE.
Well, the Vienna Convention for Road Signs was for European countries. But I'm just pointing out that that whether "stop" is French or not, it is the word used in countries that aren't French or English. So it is not the same as "truck" for "lorry."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Yes, but the part that is interesting is as to why Quebec didn't just use STOP, since in France, the bastion of the language, they do.

History of the word.

Online Etymology Dictionary
Here's a bit of the history about ARRÊT vs. STOP.

In the "good old days" (sic), most road signage in Quebec was bilingual. Occasionally in French only and also occasionally in English only.

When they started putting up stop signs the wording was ARRÊT-STOP on all of them all over the province. I remember them as a kid in the 1970s.

No one gave much thought to the fact that STOP could also be a French word - don't forget that Quebec was fairly isolated from European French influences for much of the 20th century.

After 1976, when Quebec started on a more pro-French orientation, under Bill 101 the word ARRÊT became standard for all stop signs and the old bilingual ones were gradually replaced.

Even in the more anglo suburbs of Montreal generally the signs said ARRÊT, or at the very least they said ARRÊT-STOP or STOP-ARRÊT in some cases.

Also, in some other parts of Canada they went on a modest bilingualism kick in the 80s and 90s, and this is where STOP-ARRÊT signs started appearing in Ottawa, part of Manitoba and New Brunswick. Also on federal properties like Banff National Park, etc.

Since then it has been pointed out that STOP is an acceptable word in French too, which is why the STOP-ARRET signs have been taken down in Ottawa and Manitoba, and replaced with STOP. NB still uses the two words as does the federal government in its parks.

And also, those anglo suburbs of Montreal have started posting STOP only signs as well for this reason, and the OQLF apparently has said that it's OK.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,541,240 times
Reputation: 8193
^^Acajack, I remember those Arret-Stop signs in Manitoba in the 60s and early 70s. I used to, as a young kid, sound them out to myself. And then they disappeared. I asked a couple of people some years ago just when they had disappeared since it was one of those things that happened so gradually, and I was young enough not to have paid attention to it, that I couldn't remember when or why they were replaced with STOP. Everyone I've asked also remembers the signs in the 60s and 70s but no one seems to know when or why they were replaced.

ETA: Apparently the change to STOP signs was made in the 80s because there's reference to the bilingual signs in the 60s. I am also not referring to areas with a high French population back then -Arret-Stop signs that I remember were in non-francophone communities. Legislative Electronic Publications -- Province Approves Use of Optional Bilingual Stop Signs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,365,858 times
Reputation: 8603
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Well, the Vienna Convention for Road Signs was for European countries. But I'm just pointing out that that whether "stop" is French or not, it is the word used in countries that aren't French or English. So it is not the same as "truck" for "lorry."
I think that person's point was that just because people in France use STOP on the signs, doesn't mean Quebec should. No more than English Canadians or Americans should be compelled (or shamed into) using lorry, knickers, nappies, etc. just because people in the UK do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,541,240 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think that person's point was that just because people in France use STOP on the signs, doesn't mean Quebec should. No more than English Canadians or Americans should be compelled (or shamed into) using lorry, knickers, nappies, etc. just because people in the UK do.

Oh, well if that was the point, I agree with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,691 posts, read 8,759,917 times
Reputation: 7309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think that person's point was that just because people in France use STOP on the signs, doesn't mean Quebec should. No more than English Canadians or Americans should be compelled (or shamed into) using lorry, knickers, nappies, etc. just because people in the UK do.
"don't forget that Quebec was fairly isolated from European French influences for much of the 20th century."

Yes, but by the time the bilingual STOP signs were being replaced, it was not so isolated. Also I'm not saying that Quebec should be " compelled " to put STOP on their signs. I'm just pointing out the irony. As you have mentioned, STOP is becoming more acceptable, which in itself reveals that perhaps in the overzealousness of enforcing language laws, silly things happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,691 posts, read 8,759,917 times
Reputation: 7309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think that person's point was that just because people in France use STOP on the signs, doesn't mean Quebec should. No more than English Canadians or Americans should be compelled (or shamed into) using lorry, knickers, nappies, etc. just because people in the UK do.
I just wanted to add, that the use of lorry, knickers etc is NOT the same as not using STOP on a a sign.
Not to use STOP was a calculated choice, the other just a natural difference in terms and language. No one sat down and said " in North America we shall use the word truck for lorry, so make it so "
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top