Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:11 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,419,930 times
Reputation: 1037

Advertisements

While we keep hearing about the calamitous economic consequences independence will have for Quebec. I think it will be useful to highlight the effect on the rest of Canada.
CANADA's loss:
- we are an export-based economy, where will the CA$ be? Economists say 25-30% weaker.
- weaker CA$, cut investment and spending
- GDP 25% lower
- population 25% lower
- Tremendous loss in international standing: weaker country, G8 loss/ stature, World Bank influence, etc.

It is also useful to note that polls that say things like - Canadian do not care much about Quebec being a part of Canada, also state that most Canadians do not like the idea of Quebec leaving Canada!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:21 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,419,930 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Just a hunch/opinion based on Quebecs propensity to isolate itself culturally, expect big business to Kowtow to Quebecs demands and just a general arrogance shown to those businesses not in the Francophone clique.
Walmart and other major retailers take Quebec government to court over French signage requirements | National Post,
And
CBC.ca Montreal - Interactive - Highlights from Bill 14
Well, this cannot be generalized. Until very recently, almost all of the pharmaceutical research in Canada was located in Quebec (big names like Pfizer, GSK) because of the tax incentives. These global companies had no problems with the language requirements. It was common knowledge for undergraduate students in Toronto studying Biotech/ Chem rx that knowing French increased your chances of getting a job (since all the HQs were in Montreal). Of Course all this changed when cities like Toronto/ Mississauga caught on ... and offered their own incentives.

Quebec with greater autonomy can easily do this again. They can do it with technology companies. To nullify the effects of a population loss ...... maybe they can brain drain techs from India and China (like the US) with an immigration policy that is similar to the US (and superior to that in Canada). You want me to go on ..... ? Frankly none of this has anything to do with "Quebecs demands and just a general arrogance".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:25 PM
 
35,309 posts, read 51,976,495 times
Reputation: 30997
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
this will affect Canada much more than Quebec. Canada has a lot more to lose.
we can agree to disagree on that statement .
As you seem to think its all going to be a big loss for Canada What negatives do you suppose Quebec will experience by separating from Canada, or is it going to be nothing but positives for Quebec ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:40 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,419,930 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
we can agree to disagree on that statement .
As you seem to think its all going to be a big loss for Canada What negatives do you suppose Quebec will experience by separating from Canada, or is it going to be nothing but positives for Quebec ?
But I never said that it would not affect Quebec. It most definitely will. I said earlier, that in the today's global setting, there is power in being a "bigger" country. And frankly, I am more concerned about Canada's losses and not Quebec's.

Canada (minus Quebec) is sadly the bigger loser here. It is just common sense to know that Canada has much more to lose. Economic impact aside, Quebec does not have an international status to lose ... it does not have to worry about G8 membership ... strength of CA$ .... etc.

And all this is not my opinion. I urge you to look up papers written by economists about this issue. You can easily find them through a university library search if you have membership. To me it appears that the impact on Quebec has been exaggerated, and the impact on Canada underestimated (despite what the economists tell us).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:47 PM
 
9,327 posts, read 21,932,389 times
Reputation: 4571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Actually it isn't in the middle, but that doesn't matter.

If Quebec becomes a separate country that isn't going to stop the maritime provinces from being provinces of Canada. They will still be Canada.

Just like Alaska and Hawaii are states of U.S.A. and like Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands are territories of U.S.A. Like Greenland is an autonomous country within the Kingdom of Denmark and like Saint Pierre and Miquelon (islands just immediately south of Newfoundland) is a self-governing territorial overseas collectivity of France. Each is "connected" to its respective country even if separated by water or land.

I doubt Quebec will ever actually separate. If Quebec separates and becomes a sovereign country it wouldn't be able to support itself. It would be an economic disaster for Quebec and there would be a mass exodus of people leaving Quebec. If Quebec becomes a sovereign country and tried to stop or interfere with trade, commerce, free passage of people and goods between the rest of Canada and USA and other countries that too would be a disaster for Quebec. Other ways would be found for trade and transportation. Everyone else would impose sanctions on Quebec, refuse to do business and trade with Quebec and starve the country out. Quebec would become like another Cuba and would turn into a 3rd world country.

Or else U.S.A. would bide its time for a while and then go to war and occupy or annex Quebec and claim it for its own territory. ... or maybe sell the land back to Canada. And anyone who thinks U.S.A. wouldn't do things like that better give their head a good smack and think about it again.

These people in Quebec who are agitating about separating and becoming a sovereign country are too complacent and they're not very smart, they aren't thinking ahead to what kinds of serious problems they could be faced with if they separate from Canada.

.

HAHAHA. That would never happen. Then again, there are people who believe 9/11 was a US setup or other conspiracy theories.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 12:53 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,419,930 times
Reputation: 1037
^^^^ maybe you didn't "give your head a good smack and think about it again."

LOL!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
Reputation: 11522
For those unfamiliar with the Quebec-Canada debate, one of the reasons you get so many hard-to-believe "truths" stated with such assurance here is because many Canadians have been debating this issue to death (but almost always with like-minded people!) over the past 10, 20, 30 or even 40 years. So basically they've bouncing the same ideas and arguments off each other for so long, that even the most preposterous or far-fetched ones can seem like the gospel truth.

This is especially true of the Anglo-Quebec community where many members are deeply anxious about the issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
Reputation: 11522
Another point to consider is how the issue is not viewed as a debate of political issues with one being more optimal than the other, or one being misguided, but rather as a binary opposition of good vs. evil, God vs. Satan, the Rebels vs. the Empire, the cowboy with the white hat vs. the cowboy with the black hat, the Roadrunner vs. the Coyote...

Which is why more often than not the people who support a particular option are demonized and demeaned in a worse way than even the Republicans and Democrats do to each other in the US. And that's saying something.

And which also explains why people who aren't found to be sufficiently harsh against the proponents of a particular option (even if they don't share that view) can be the focus of attacks as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
Reputation: 11522
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
While we keep hearing about the calamitous economic consequences independence will have for Quebec. I think it will be useful to highlight the effect on the rest of Canada.
CANADA's loss:
- we are an export-based economy, where will the CA$ be? Economists say 25-30% weaker.
- weaker CA$, cut investment and spending
- GDP 25% lower
- population 25% lower
- Tremendous loss in international standing: weaker country, G8 loss/ stature, World Bank influence, etc.

It is also useful to note that polls that say things like - Canadian do not care much about Quebec being a part of Canada, also state that most Canadians do not like the idea of Quebec leaving Canada!
I have not prepared a ledger to see if Canada would be hurt more than Quebec, but certainly it is very very true that the effects on the remaining Canada are rarely considered by anyone and the generalized sentiment is that it would be sitting pretty and even better off without Quebec which has allegedly been bringing Canada down for so long.

A few other issues for Canada-sans-Quebec:

- how to compel a seceding entity to assume its share of the federal debt (which is in Canada's name only) and finding an acceptable percentage for this
- how to deal with the dual citizenship issue for some 8 million former Canadian residents living in Quebec; many federalists in Quebec won't be able to move so they will stay in Quebec, so is it fair to deprive them of their Canadian citizenship? Also, Canadian allows dual citizenship with other countries at the moment - the optics would be very bad if you could be a dual Canada-Afghanistan citizen but not a dual Canada-Quebec citizen; and Canada is also pretty loose with residency requirements for its citizens - would it tighten them up for the entire world, or just Quebec? Sounds dicey as well.
- Aboriginal gorups in northern Quebec will likely come knocking on Ottawa's door, and Quebec will likely respond with sweetheart deals (cash and quasi-independent status) - the rest of the country has far more aboriginal land claim issues than Quebec does - so does Ottawa try and match Quebec's offer, with the risk of getting tons of copy-cat "me too!" requests for the same thing from first nations across the country?

So yeah, even though your drunk uncle at the Dominion Tavern in Moose Jaw hasn't thought of them, there are lots of good reasons for Canada to want Quebec to stay in the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2013, 01:46 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 2,419,930 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I have not prepared a ledger to see if Canada would be hurt more than Quebec, but certainly it is very very true that the effects on the remaining Canada are rarely considered by anyone and the generalized sentiment is that it would be sitting pretty and even better off without Quebec which has allegedly been bringing Canada down for so long.
"More hurt" or "Less hurt" are quite generic terms and I should not have used them. I am really not into this Canada-Quebec debate, but I do know a little about the economic consequences of such a move.

I mean, how difficult is it to understand that Canada-sans-Quebec would have a significantly smaller GDP and this would result in a weaker CA$, which would affect exports (something that the CA economy relies on).

Quote:
A few other issues for Canada-sans-Quebec:

- how to compel a seceding entity to assume its share of the federal debt (which is in Canada's name only) and finding an acceptable percentage for this
- how to deal with the dual citizenship issue for some 8 million former Canadian residents living in Quebec; many federalists in Quebec won't be able to move so they will stay in Quebec, so is it fair to deprive them of their Canadian citizenship? Also, Canadian allows dual citizenship with other countries at the moment - the optics would be very bad if you could be a dual Canada-Afghanistan citizen but not a dual Canada-Quebec citizen; and Canada is also pretty loose with residency requirements for its citizens - would it tighten them up for the entire world, or just Quebec? Sounds dicey as well.
- Aboriginal gorups in northern Quebec will likely come knocking on Ottawa's door, and Quebec will likely respond with sweetheart deals (cash and quasi-independent status) - the rest of the country has far more aboriginal land claim issues than Quebec does - so does Ottawa try and match Quebec's offer, with the risk of getting tons of copy-cat "me too!" requests for the same thing from first nations across the country?
You raise good issues. But I regard these as secondary issues and things that can be solved or controlled (eventually). Losing 30% of your GDP is something that is HARDER to control.

And finally .... those who claim to hate Quebec and keep saying that Quebec will be ruined without Canada .... spend way too much time obsessing about Quebec and its fate. They should be more concerned about Canada (w/o Quebec) ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top