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Old 08-27-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,332,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
"More hurt" or "Less hurt" are quite generic terms and I should not have used them. I am really not into this Canada-Quebec debate, but I do know a little about the economic consequences of such a move.

I mean, how difficult is it to understand that Canada-sans-Quebec would have a significantly smaller GDP and this would result in a weaker CA$, which would affect exports (something that the CA economy relies on).


You raise good issues. But I regard these as secondary issues and things that can be solved or controlled (eventually). Losing 30% of your GDP is something that is HARDER to control.
There is a lot of talk about Quebec having to renegotiate itself into NAFTA, and that the US and Canada would take Quebec to the cleaners, but honestly, who's to say Canada-sans-Quebec wouldn't have to renegotiate its place as well? And if that request were to come from the Americans (who rarely take no for an answer ), then wouldn't the easiest way to get around it be for Canada and Quebec to come forward with a united market to show the Americans that it would still be business as usual north of the border?
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:15 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,094 times
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LOL! I bet you a million $$ that people who say such ridiculous things know nothing about NAFTA and the clauses in this treaty. Canada would be more concerned about its place in the G8 than getting Quebec out of NAFTA. This is a joke!
All this Canada-Quebec-separation talk is getting me depressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
There is a lot of talk about Quebec having to renegotiate itself into NAFTA, and that the US and Canada would take Quebec to the cleaners, but honestly, who's to say Canada-sans-Quebec wouldn't have to renegotiate its place as well? And if that request were to come from the Americans (who rarely take no for an answer ), then wouldn't the easiest way to get around it be for Canada and Quebec to come forward with a united market to show the Americans that it would still be business as usual north of the border?
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:35 PM
 
34,365 posts, read 41,446,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
For those unfamiliar with the Quebec-Canada debate, one of the reasons you get so many hard-to-believe "truths" stated with such assurance here is because many Canadians have been debating this issue to death (but almost always with like-minded people!) over the past 10, 20, 30 or even 40 years. So basically they've bouncing the same ideas and arguments off each other for so long, that even the most preposterous or far-fetched ones can seem like the gospel truth.

This is especially true of the Anglo-Quebec community where many members are deeply anxious about the issue.
Actually i'd say the only debate about the issue going on in Canada is on this forum, the days of Canada caring about what Quebec does is long past.If any one is bouncing the same old rhetoric around its the francophone governments of Quebec.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,332,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Actually i'd say the only debate about the issue going on in Canada is on this forum, the days of Canada caring about what Quebec does is long past.If any one is bouncing the same old rhetoric around its the francophone governments of Quebec.
Ah yes... 12,500 hits for "Quebec" and "charter" in the English pages of Google News. Seems like English-speaking Canadians aren't quite finished with trying to explain Quebec to themselves.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:50 PM
 
34,365 posts, read 41,446,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
But I never said that it would not affect Quebec. It most definitely will. I said earlier, that in the today's global setting, there is power in being a "bigger" country. And frankly, I am more concerned about Canada's losses and not Quebec's.

Canada (minus Quebec) is sadly the bigger loser here. It is just common sense to know that Canada has much more to lose. Economic impact aside, Quebec does not have an international status to lose ... it does not have to worry about G8 membership ... strength of CA$ .... etc.

And all this is not my opinion. I urge you to look up papers written by economists about this issue. You can easily find them through a university library search if you have membership. To me it appears that the impact on Quebec has been exaggerated, and the impact on Canada underestimated (despite what the economists tell us).
I imagine a Quebec that in separation now has to foot the bill for everything Canada/federal now funds from post office to Unemployment benefits to pensions to the upkeep of all the federal buildings to a loss of billions of dollars in transfer payments to education and healthcare to maintenance of bridges,airports,harbours border patrol etc etc,and also pay its share of the federal debt on its departure.
the list goes on. suffice it to say i dont share your optimism in a Quebec that has to go it alone where Canada has the shared resources of 9 provinces the Yukon the NWT territories and Nunavut.
Heres a good article on the issue of a Canada without Quebec, a rather balanced piece in my opinion.
How Will We Fare?
..
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:25 AM
 
2,288 posts, read 3,932,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I imagine a Quebec that in separation now has to foot the bill for everything Canada/federal now funds from post office to Unemployment benefits to pensions to the upkeep of all the federal buildings to a loss of billions of dollars in transfer payments to education and healthcare to maintenance of bridges,airports,harbours border patrol etc etc,and also pay its share of the federal debt on its departure.
the list goes on. suffice it to say i dont share your optimism in a Quebec that has to go it alone where Canada has the shared resources of 9 provinces the Yukon the NWT territories and Nunavut.
Heres a good article on the issue of a Canada without Quebec, a rather balanced piece in my opinion.
How Will We Fare?
..
I agree that it doesn't seem biased. However that book is 20 years old (back when Quebec unemployment was significantly higher, Alberta/SK/Nfld oil revenues were significantly lower, Ontario's manufacturing base was significantly better off, etc.), and admits that there isn't much credible research on the economic impacts of Quebec separation on the rest of Canada (as opposed to studies about the impacts on Quebec).

"Who would be worse off" is a pointless question to ask anyway. Who cares who would be economically worse off? For both "sides" there are positives and negatives to separation, most of which are subjective (if quantifiable at all). The question is: do you think the positives outweigh the negatives? The list of positives and negatives is different, but it's the same question for Quebec residents and ROC residents.
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Old 08-28-2013, 12:03 PM
 
34,365 posts, read 41,446,089 times
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Yeah the article is a bit dated and some of the numbers could do with some updating but it does point out some of the issues involved in a Quebec separation.
When Quebec does separate its going to be a major upheaval for all concerned,when the dust settles my bottom line is that i'll still be a Canadian living in Canada, which will obviously require a relocation on my part.
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Old 08-29-2013, 07:07 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,962,964 times
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Quebec is not going to separate. I predict the whole separatist movement will be virtually dead within the next 20-30 years. French-first sentiment is another matter.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:15 AM
 
34,365 posts, read 41,446,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Quebec is not going to separate. I predict the whole separatist movement will be virtually dead within the next 20-30 years. French-first sentiment is another matter.

IMO While it certainly doesnt seem the logical move to separate from Canada the Quebec government isnt known for being logical as it beefs up its language laws and now tries to implement restrictions on religious symbols all the while brainwashing its Francophone demographic about the evils of those hoardes of Anglo oppressors just waiting to assimilate all Francophones.
pdw i dont share your optimism on Quebec staying in Canada, i dont really see the point, all i see is a Francophone government that over the years has molded Quebec into a separate country within Canada politically,culturally and linguistically, i'm not seeing any reversal of that trend, basically the only thing left for Quebec separation other than a favorable political climate is a crossing of the t's and dotting the i's and Quebec is its own country.

Last edited by jambo101; 08-30-2013 at 02:09 AM..
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:07 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,703,267 times
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You know taking in all this makes me wonder how Quebec is doing say 'psychologically'. I mean you all have this 'duality' always flowing along. There's practically an absolute 'demarcation' as opposed to say a fine intermingling with an undefined border if you get the drift between Quebecer cultures. It never apparently rests. The standards are usually made to be put into the sand. I don't know how long societies can deal with the pressure. The teapot's simmering real good now. From all I've seen, regrading the issues in Quebec, if they haven't been solved by now when will it be time? And who will pay the price? Somebody always pays the piper. No free cheques here. If you want a nice Quebec souffle, I know you have to scramble some eggs. Question is what kind of souffle and who's eggs will get scrambled real good?
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