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Old 09-18-2013, 01:39 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,223 posts, read 6,575,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
I saw someone wearing a scarf get caught between revolving doors once. I think we should ban scarves.
Off topic but your mention of that struck up this memory of a gruesome incident that's always left me leery of wearing very long scarves and gives me the shivers whenever I see other women wearing them.

The dancer Isadora Duncan was killed in 1927 because of a scarf. Her long flowing silk scarf became entangled around the open-spoked wheels and rear axle of the Amilcar convertible she was a passenger in. The force of it snapped her neck and nearly decapitated her as it dragged her out of the moving car and threw her to the road, killing her instantly.

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Old 09-18-2013, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Toronto
1,655 posts, read 1,638,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Off topic but your mention of that struck up this memory of a gruesome incident that's always left me leery of wearing very long scarves and gives me the shivers whenever I see other women wearing them.

The dancer Isadora Duncan was killed in 1927 because of a scarf. Her long flowing silk scarf became entangled around the open-spoked wheels and rear axle of the Amilcar convertible she was a passenger in. The force of it snapped her neck and nearly decapitated her as it dragged her out of the moving car and threw her to the road, killing her instantly.

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Was there any damage to the car?
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:45 AM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,511 times
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While I appreciate your response, I think that you have conveniently brushed aside all the points I raised. These SC of Canada rulings prove that the "religious freedoms" are not absolute in Canada. And all those people who are screaming "is this Canada?" should re-evaluate their position.

1. The Supreme court of Canada ruled on December 20, 2012 that the niqab would not be permissible in courts of law in the majority of cases.
You find this to be reasonable? But you object to a similar ban in schools? And you object to a similar ban in the police force? Army? Wouldn't you need to show your face in all of those places/ positions as well?

2. In 1985 a court case involving an employee of the CN Railway, a Sikh whose religion required that he wear a turban, lost his challenge of the CNR policy that required him to wear a hard hat. The SCofC amended this ruling (later) but stated that employers can cite Bona fide occupational qualifications in such cases and refuse to hire Sikhs wearing turbans.
This is case where the courts flip-flopped! Maybe you should read about it. First, a lower court over-ruled a Sikh's right to wear their turban while working for the CNR. And later, the SC of Canada (due to obvious pressure from the Sikhs) over-turned the judgement - clearly stating that Sikhs can continue to wear their turban and it is the responsibility of the CNR to ensure safety (without the helmet?). And to save face, SC of Canada added the Bona fide occupational qualifications at the end of the ruling.

So your point about "safety over religion" is moot. Clearly, SC of Canada thinks that the right of a Sikh to wear a turban is more important that him wearing a hard hat to work.

3. In 1995, the Federal Court of Appeal upheld the exemption for Sikhs from wearing the "Mountie hat" as part of the RCMP dress requirements.
Clearly one tradition was favored over the other. For many Canadians the Mountie Hat holds a lot of (cultural) value. So, the cultural traditions of many were hurt in the name of religious freedom and a "holy mandate from the sky". And whatever happened to uniform requirements.

4. In 2006, the SC of Canada ruled that Sikh children can wear a kirpan or knife/ dagger to school based on freedom of religion.
You can post whatever link you want. But a kirpan is a knife/ dagger. You can call it a symbol like the cross or star. But it is a knife. End of story. If it was only a harmless symbol, it could have been made out of plastic or rubber; but it is made out of steel and sharpened.

So now, kids have to go to school with other Sikh kids who carry a knife to school because their religion mandates it and the SC of Canada approves it? And no one sees anything wrong with this? What about tribal religions that require you to carry a spear? Should we allow spears in our classrooms?

All the so called freedom lovers and democracy thumpers fail to notice that in many of these cases - the freedoms/ rights of the MANY were taken away to grant trivial freedom(s) to the FEW, purely in the name of religion/god. Attach a holy tag to any ridiculous idea and suddenly you have everyone defending it. Nevermind the freedoms of the MANY Canadians that are lost in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
At your request I have gone back to post 190.

I don't see these cases as flip flopping. The first case regarding the niquab is reasonable. We are talking when the court of law must see the face of the witness or the accused. It just makes sense.

The second case is a health and safety issue. Of course if your job requires you to wear a hard hat, especially for insurance purposes, that becomes paramount over anything else.

The mountie's hat is not a health and safety issue. It was a uniform issue. It is not in the same camp as the CN employees complaint. The decision was a sound one. What horrible thing has happened since mounties have been able to wear the turban as part of their uniform? The CN case, could of ended in injury or death.

A person wearing a headscarf at work is going to result in what?

Ask for the Kirpan, read this article. It's quite informing.

Understanding the Kirpan | World Sikh Organization of Canada

Last edited by sandman249; 09-18-2013 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:32 PM
 
307 posts, read 185,641 times
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I think the court ruling's mistake was not mandating these weapons be secured in a sheath and made impossible to draw, as was ruled in the U.S. state of New York.
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,338,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quebon View Post
I think the court ruling's mistake was not mandating these weapons be secured in a sheath and made impossible to draw, as was ruled in the U.S. state of New York.
Could they have not mandated them to be small to the point of being inoccuous? Is there anything in Sikhsm that refers to the size of the daggers?
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Old 09-18-2013, 12:55 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Could they have not mandated them to be small to the point of being innocuous? Is there anything in Sikhism that refers to the size of the daggers?
No. But Sikhism defines the kirpan as a religious weapon to be used to protect yourself and others. Sure ... it is a religious symbol, but it is also a weapon.

This ruling by many courts around the world to allow the kirpan in public spaces is a clear violation of the "rights of many" in the name of religious freedom. SC of Canada is clearly violating my rights by allowing a certain segment of the population to carry weapons into public spaces while preventing me from doing the same. Essentially .... if I am not a Sikh, I am not allowed to carry a kirpan. Talk about discrimination!
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:01 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,511 times
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Our only hope:

How To Create Your Own Religion In 10 Easy Steps
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:03 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quebon View Post
I think the court ruling's mistake was not mandating these weapons be secured in a sheath and made impossible to draw, as was ruled in the U.S. state of New York.
By that logic, I should be allowed to carry a gun if it has no bullets?
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Old 09-18-2013, 01:58 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,963,351 times
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Stop acting as if this effects you. You don't want to carry around a kirpan, but you want to prevent others from doing it? Where's the logic there? If you convert to Sikhism, they'd let you.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:15 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,994,511 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Stop acting as if this effects you. You don't want to carry around a kirpan, but you want to prevent others from doing it? Where's the logic there? If you convert to Sikhism, they'd let you.
Are you kidding me? I'd love to be able to carry a knife around with me. Not only would it let me protect myself incase of an attack, it would help me open packages and letters with ease.

Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
Equality rights: (section 15): equal treatment before and under the law, and equal protection and benefit of the law without discrimination.

In other words .... I should be treated the same despite my religious affiliation! Hence, I should be allowed to carry a knife.
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