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Old 09-11-2013, 02:22 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Do you have any polls to support this? I'm having a hard time believing that majority of Francophones are so xenophobic. My friends and relatives in Quebec are Francophones and they tell me they are embarrassed.
You are equalling banning religious symbols to xenophobic, which is the wrong assumption to start with. Keeping repeating it doesn't make them the same thing.

Many people simple want to keep the government as secular as possible and don't want religion to seep into every aspect of life. Nothing to do with xenophobic.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:25 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
This is your argument? You want to ignore social progress of religious tolerance, a value that free and democratic society has a core value? Antenna's? Nudity? Mud ? Seriously?
it is not about "tolerance". If someone believes in a religion, I tolerate it, as I tolerate any stupidity. Just not stick it in front of my face all the time, parciularly in the public service.

No one advocates persecuting anyone, but we have the rights not to be bothered by all those stupid symbols all the time as well. They are like noise. Can you argue making excesssive noise in public is a right and freedom too??
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:28 PM
 
2,291 posts, read 3,936,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Do you have any polls to support this? I'm having a hard time believing that majority of Francophones are so xenophobic. My friends and relatives in Quebec are Francophones and they tell me they are embarrassed.
I'm embarrassed too, but:

Charte des valeurs québécoises - Signes religieux bannis: les Québécois appuient Drainville

The Journal de Montréal article is behind a paywall but here are some relevant background stats:

Appui massif des francophones | Politique | Actualité | Le Journal de Montréal

I doubt there's anything unique about Quebec or Quebecers in there, but I have no polls to prove that part.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:49 PM
 
34,399 posts, read 41,509,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Racism has to do with race. What race is this charter against? White? Black? Asian? Enlighten me. Or you think middle eastern is a "race"? Or Muslim is a race?

Go find a dictionary and check what race means before throwing words like racism around.
From dictionary.com
racism


rac·ism

[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:55 PM
 
34,399 posts, read 41,509,339 times
Reputation: 29878
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
You are equalling banning religious symbols to xenophobic, which is the wrong assumption to start with. Keeping repeating it doesn't make them the same thing.

Many people simple want to keep the government as secular as possible and don't want religion to seep into every aspect of life. Nothing to do with xenophobic.
From the Miriam Webster dictionary

Full Definition of XENOPHOBIA

: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:58 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
From the Miriam Webster dictionary

Full Definition of XENOPHOBIA

: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
yeah, guess a Christian crucifix is so strange and foreign to Quebeckers.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:59 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,273,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
From dictionary.com
racism


rac·ism

[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another
still, I see "race"
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Old 09-11-2013, 03:50 PM
 
1,218 posts, read 2,117,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Well people like jambo101 don't seem to get it and seem to think this foreshadows a new Kristallnacht, but just to make it clearer, in simple terms:

1 - PQ unveils proposals for values charter - reactions are vitriolic and over the top, particular from the ROC, and widely covered in the Quebec media

2- Minority PQ government gets toppled, proposed values charter dies, new elections held in Quebec

3- Elections held, and a sufficient amount of Quebec voters are PO'd enough at the ROC's bashing of Quebec and the federal government's perceived legal thwarting of Quebec's will, to give the PQ enough votes to get a majority goverrnment this time.

4- The PQ, with its majority, starts putting the wheels in motion for a third referendum (depending on how things are going, it may or may not need to revive the dead values charter to fan the flames of Quebec bashing in the ROC that always helps convince Quebecers that ROCers hate their guts and that there is no place for them in Canada
I've been trying to think of their underlying strategy here. I'm not sure (3) will work out though. The ROC isn't interested enough in Quebec to launch enough substantive bashing/attacks at a magnitude to rally the majority of Quebecers behind the PQ. It's not a big deal enough to most people because it doesn't impact them directly. Assuming the bill fails and the Minority PQ is toppled, the reaction from the ROC would be "there goes those crazy separatists again" and will be largely forgotten, especially one hockey season starts

If it means anything, if the separatists did rally the majority of Quebecers of separate then I wouldn't be surprised if the ROC accepted it.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:00 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,473 posts, read 1,965,702 times
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Being religious is not a sign of stupidity. Some of the greatest minds in history have been Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews... It's very ignorant to ignore this.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:29 PM
 
34,399 posts, read 41,509,339 times
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My wife who grew up here in Quebec never really thought things were bad enough to actually up root and leave even though her brothers have left all her school buddies have left, our two daughters cant get out of this province fast enough, this Charter of Values has really brought out a side of her i've never seen before, she's finally seen Quebec as a place she no longer wants to live in we were discussing over supper tonight where we are going to move to when she retires in 4 years.
Many of my friends have left over the years, their kids have mostly left, now its my turn.
4 year count down is on....
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