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Old 11-13-2013, 07:53 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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The guy honestly admitted that China did something pretty marvelous partly due to its "basic dictatorship", and the media acts like this guys is making a huge mistake or just being stupid.

China does have a lot of problem, but one can't deny the fact that its authoritarianism is responsible for its impressive economic growth which lifted tens of millions of people out of poverty, that it became the second largest economy from 10+th in a matter of less than a decade, that it was able to finish almost 10,000 km of high speed rail within a few years (something which could take Canada 80 years), that its large cities were able to complete 400km of rapid transit within 5 or 6 years (something that would take Toronto 50-60 years), that it rapidly becomes one of the largest clean energy producer in the world from nothing, that in a matter of 60 years, over 90% of its population are already covered by various level of health insurance, that it raised its literacy rate to 95% from 20% in 6 decades?

Yes, we can talk about China's pollution, food quality or human rights incessantly as if they are the ONLY things that matter, but there is absolutely nothing wrong in admitting that something that actually worked and delivered efficient results western countries can't in 10X time.

India is a full democracy. Does it have impeccable human rights track record (think about all the raping)? How did that work for the country and its people so far? Much of the country still doesn't have paved roads yet, not to mention high speed rail. Can you even start to compare Mumbai with Shanghai nowadays. India's female literacy rate is 65%, compared with 93% in China.

And the media is still mocking or attacking Trudeau for saying so, as if it is a disgrace for a "democratic country" to have any admiration for a "dictatorship". -- before we are being so dismissive, countries such as Singapore, Taiwan and S Korea were all dictatorship not a long time ago, and their whole economic transformation, including ascending to developed country status all happened during this time. We could keep an blind ear to it all we want, but it is stupid to deny that every country has its own strength and different system may have its benefit as well. Thinking about our forever lasting fight over a subway in Toronto we should realize, although reluctant to say, our system isn't exactly that fantastic.

Prior to 1840, the Chinese government lived in a bubble and pretended that all western countries' economic and military power were just fake and paper tiger. I have a feeling that some western countries sank into that kind of denial as well. The media and the people are too quick to dismiss anything they traditionally don't agree with and just keep believing they are just superior.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:33 PM
 
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He was in his 7-month on his first trip to China.
http://www2.macleans.ca/wp-content/u...IERRE01www.jpg

What's with all the dictatorship you listed - either one died in disgrace in Canada or the living dictators call here home (hum.. a second home is still a home)!
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,655,906 times
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I would assume it's because we like to think of individual freedoms as being among the defining characteristics of western society. To profess admiration for a regime often opposed to those freedoms is, in many people's view, tatamount to professing disdain for them.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
I would assume it's because we like to think of individual freedoms as being among the defining characteristics of western society. To profess admiration for a regime often opposed to those freedoms is, in many people's view, tatamount to professing disdain for them.
maybe true but that doesn't mean there is no merit in China's system.
Plus the Chinese are enjoying increasing level of freedom - back in the 1960, citizens and their family will be persecute for even complaining about the leader, now they can talk whatever they want; the government is becoming more tolerant of online speech even if it is not what it likes to hear.

Additionally in terms of the political system, it is no longer dictated by one supreme leader like it was in the 50s-80s. There are various factions within the party itself - the conservative, the liberal-minded, the nationalist. China is changing and reforming, and its people are having more freedom, just not as fast as the west likes to see, our media simply refuses to admit it or thinks it is either full fledged overnight change to the western system or nothing. But who says every country has to be ruled exactly like a western country?

I give Trudeau credit for his honesty. Most politicians don't have the guts to say that (even if they privately thinks so) in fear of offending the highly brainwashed people who keep believing China is an evil regime and nothing out of it is any good.
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,655,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
maybe true but that doesn't mean there is no merit in China's system.
Plus the Chinese are enjoying increasing level of freedom - back in the 1960, citizens and their family will be persecute for even complaining about the leader, now they can talk whatever they want; the government is becoming more tolerant of online speech even if it is not what it likes to hear.

Additionally in terms of the political system, it is no longer dictated by one supreme leader like it was in the 50s-80s. There are various factions within the party itself - the conservative, the liberal-minded, the nationalist. China is changing and reforming, and its people are having more freedom, just not as fast as the west likes to see, our media simply refuses to admit it or thinks it is either full fledged overnight change to the western system or nothing. But who says every country has to be ruled exactly like a western country?

I give Trudeau credit for his honesty. Most politicians don't have the guts to say that (even if they privately thinks so) in fear of offending the highly brainwashed people who keep believing China is an evil regime and nothing out of it is any good.
The thing is, he didn't profess admiration for China's improvements on human rights - rather, he said he appreciated the efficiency and decisiveness of a totolitarian system. In other words, he said he liked the parts of the Chinese system most out of step with western values.

There's merit in how the Chinese do some things. Others are done in a manner totally alien and, frankly, incompatible with western society. It's not that he praised China, but the specific things he praised.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:13 PM
 
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Westerners like to talk about "diversity". However they do not allow anyone to be "diverse" if it is about political systems or ideology etc.

Before the 1800s, China used to believe their system and ideology were the best in the world too.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:53 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Westerners like to talk about "diversity". However they do not allow anyone to be "diverse" if it is about political systems or ideology etc.

Before the 1800s, China used to believe their system and ideology were the best in the world too.
very true.
Plus most Canadians' understanding about Canada is very shallow and often wrong, misled by years of brainwashing.

China has only one relevant party, but it is far from a dictatorship any more. The president can't choose to implement any policy he wants. He doesn't have ultimate and absolute power. There is a lot of compromise to please other relevant people, and there is a lot of internal fighting.

As to Trudeau, I didn't like him before (largely because he is a "liberal" which carries a negative connotation for me), but from this incident I am having more respect for him.

Is he stupid that he doesn't know praising China will offend both the media and the people? No. It is simply he doesn't care that much. He cares more about telling his position than being smart talking and "politically correct", which means whenever talking about China, just focus on how bad the human rights are there and how sweat factories are stealing jobs.

There is nothing more disgusting about a politician than political correctness, even though he/she doesn't really believe it. I applaud Trudeau for rising above those cliche talk that sounds pleasing to the ears but essentially carries no new information, and actually pointing out something our superb "democracy" lacks.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:29 PM
 
1,269 posts, read 3,420,761 times
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I don't waste my storage space remembering what politicians said. However, I did a cursory search for his "China admiration". I had the impression that he was phising for a bigger fish on this side of the ocean, whether or not his allegory was unintentionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
As to Trudeau, I didn't like him before (largely because he is a "liberal" which carries a negative connotation for me), but from this incident I am having more respect for him.

Is he stupid that he doesn't know praising China will offend both the media and the people? No. It is simply he doesn't care that much. He cares more about telling his position than being smart talking and "politically correct", which means whenever talking about China, just focus on how bad the human rights are there and how sweat factories are stealing jobs.
So you are saying that you had a change of heart for liking him now, because his professed admiration strokes your ego agreeably.

The part you mentioned about China's political achievements in the last 10 - 20 years are amazing. But I won't engage into any debates on this one, as I am not clear if this should be in the forums of great debates or politics.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:04 AM
 
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So in the west, it is politically incorrect to praise China? It is weird because China has achieved so much in recent years and there is nothing to learn from China?
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:59 PM
 
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I am sure he is being paid to sing praises. Money buys a lot and the CHINESE know that. USA and Canada definitely needs to tax more those companies doing business with the chinese.

And both India and China don't care about North America, they just want our money.
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