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Old 06-05-2014, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,548,316 times
Reputation: 8193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
No, it is not able skin colour trust me. I am not even white.

When I was in the US, when you go to public services such as the DMV in LA, 90% employees are black and I had zero problem with that. What I don't like is the explicit display of one's religion, let it be a cross or nijab. I don't want public servants to use any God-related language as well. Government should be neutral. You religion is your personal business, don't bring it to the work place.
I knew you weren't white because you'd mentioned before that you weren't. I think you missed my point though - for some people their faith is as much a part of who they are as skin colour.

And the above sounds just like blacks being told to sit at the back of the bus - anywhere but in public. It doesn't sound good, Botticelli. People used arguments like yours in the not-so-distant past to justify all kinds of crap against black people. Equal but separate being one of them.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,403,107 times
Reputation: 8618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Yes…but I believe, someone correct me if I"m wrong, there are parameters as to what the state will recognize as a religion…and your newly founded one probably is too new to count.
I think you are right, although it's a bit of a grey area I think. And in any event, the religions that have some of their members challenging the established order of things in Canada or western democracies more broadly, don't tend to be newfangled ones, but those with millennial histories.

But that doesn't mean that it's an open bar and that everything is open for negotiation or automatically acceptable under the guise of religious freedom. Or at least it shouldn't be.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,962 posts, read 27,403,107 times
Reputation: 8618
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I knew you weren't white because you'd mentioned before that you weren't. I think you missed my point though - for some people their faith is as much a part of who they are as skin colour.

And the above sounds just like blacks being told to sit at the back of the bus - anywhere but in public. It doesn't sound good, Botticelli. People used arguments like yours in the not-so-distant past to justify all kinds of crap against black people. Equal but separate being one of them.
I don't read that at all in his post.
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:04 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,740,969 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
don't you have a dress code at your work place?
Can bank tellers wear tshirts and shorts to work?
Everybody more or less has a dress code.
Yea but they still let you wear things like a rosary or a kippah.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,079 posts, read 14,049,885 times
Reputation: 8925
Canada in trouble, compared to Amerika, , that's funny. When did Canada invade a foreign country kill millions of their people to steal their oil? That then bankrupted the country into a death spiral. When did Canada illegally fund a guerrilla war and have the CIA import Cocaine which didn't make it's way to Rob's straw? When did Canada become the nation with a larger prison population that Russia?

Yes I have ran into d bags in Canada moreso in the East but really these are G rated compared to good ol gangster USA. But hey we evolved from the Tommy gun to the 1k pen with Armani suit.

I will say this for Rob. He must not be snorting that much coke looking that obese so maybe there is hope.

Thanks for sharing. I am feeling better about Northern flight every month.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,548,316 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
No, it is not able skin colour trust me. I am not even white.

When I was in the US, when you go to public services such as the DMV in LA, 90% employees are black and I had zero problem with that. What I don't like is the explicit display of one's religion, let it be a cross or nijab. I don't want public servants to use any God-related language as well. Government should be neutral. You religion is your personal business, don't bring it to the work place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't read that at all in his post.
Okay, let me explain myself then. People used all kinds of convoluted reasoning to deny others who were perceived as different rights. Based on religion, which is as integral and unchangeable to many people as the colour of their skin, he assumes that they will be prejudiced against him, when he is showing prejudice against them by his assumptions. "Anywhere but in public" = back of the bus.

Sure sounds like a version of the black kids wearing hoodies equals criminals scenario to me.

And Acajack, you probably remember the brouhaha there was in the US when a Catholic president was elected - JFK - the idea that because he was Catholic he would take his marching orders from the Pope.

We really should be a bit further along than then both racial prejudice and religious bigotry. Unfortunately, I think that where racial prejudice is now seen as unacceptable, religious bigotry is thriving.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Yea but they still let you wear things like a rosary or a kippah.
exactly.

Now it has occurred to me that perhaps Botticelli immigrated from a country where religious and ethnic tensions run high and hence his views.

And sorry if I'm not explaining myself better. I am terribly tired and not doing my best thinking.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:39 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,998,137 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
True professionals do it all the time. Take religious scientists. You would have to be an idiot to become an abortion doctor if you are against abortion. Even those who are adamantly against abortion, are not against it when the mother's life is in danger.
Who is a true professional? In Canada, Ob/Gyn's are trained to perform abortions (complicated ones), but abortions can be performed by any physician, even general practitioners. However, only about 20% of physicians in Canada perform abortions. In fact, there is a shortage of such services for women in places like the PEI.

The Canadian Medical Association has a "conscience clause" so that physicians are not forced to act in any way that goes against their personal beliefs.Even in pro-choice Canada, doctors use this clause to refuse prescriptions for birth control, abortion, and pap smears.

Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada's report states:
Even though most physicians choose not to perform abortions, all
primary care physicians have the opportunity to provide women with effective contraceptive
options, thus reducing the need for women to seek abortions. Unfortunately, some physicians
restrict women’s access to both contraception and abortion under the guise of a “moral
imperative”, often rooted in their religious beliefs. Such doctors not only refuse to perform
abortions, they may even refuse to refer women for abortion. Furthermore, an increasing number
of medical students are organizing to assert their right to refuse reproductive health care to their
patients on the basis of personal beliefs.
PDF: http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpaper...r-Shortage.PDF

You hear worse stories coming from the US. But even in Canada, there are more than a few cases of religion impacting healthcare. While abortion is commonly discussed, medical issues related to dementia and life-ending diseases are also affected.

You bring up scientists. But that is a very poor example. You have very few religious scientists anyway. How could you really believe that the earth is 5000 years old and also be an evolutionary biologist? And how does it directly affect anyone if a particle physicist thinks that all abortion should be outlawed?

On the other hand, what happens if politicians are religious? Are they true professionals who keep religion out of politics and legislation? I am sure you can answer this yourself.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,548,316 times
Reputation: 8193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman249 View Post
Who is a true professional? In Canada, Ob/Gyn's are trained to perform abortions (complicated ones), but abortions can be performed by any physician, even general practitioners. However, only about 20% of physicians in Canada perform abortions.

The Canadian Medical Association has a "conscience clause" so that physicians are not forced to act in any way that goes against their personal beliefs.Even in pro-choice Canada, doctors use this clause to refuse prescriptions for birth control, abortion, and pap smears.

Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada's report states:
Even though most physicians choose not to perform abortions, all
primary care physicians have the opportunity to provide women with effective contraceptive
options, thus reducing the need for women to seek abortions. Unfortunately, some physicians
restrict women’s access to both contraception and abortion under the guise of a “moral
imperative”, often rooted in their religious beliefs. Such doctors not only refuse to perform
abortions, they may even refuse to refer women for abortion. Furthermore, an increasing number
of medical students are organizing to assert their right to refuse reproductive health care to their
patients on the basis of personal beliefs.
PDF: http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpaper...r-Shortage.PDF

You hear worse stories coming from the US. But even in Canada, there are more than a few cases of religion impacting healthcare. While abortion is commonly discussed, medical issues related to dementia and life-ending diseases are also affected.

You bring up scientists. But that is a very poor example. You have very few religious scientists anyway. How could you really believe that the earth is 5000 years old and also be an evolutionary biologist? And how does it directly affect anyone if a particle physicist thinks that all abortion should be outlawed?

On the other hand, what happens if politicians are religious? Are the true professionals? I am sure you can answer this yourself.
JFK was religious. Harper is. Hasn't done a thing about abortion though. Obama is. I think pretty much every American politician has claimed to be religious. Whether their religion has affected their policies, that I don't know about. I can't think of any examples at the moment.

Religious doesn't equal belief in a 5000 year old earth.

And I think he was using scientists more liberally than biologists.

But without quizzing every professional you deal with, how would you ever know what their faith is?

I think, if in a professional position, someone discusses their personal faith, they should be fired.
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:55 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,998,137 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Now it has occurred to me that perhaps Botticelli immigrated from a country where religious and ethnic tensions run high and hence his views.
A very bigoted statement! Attack the arguments, not the person.

No one here is expressing religious intolerance. It is more about the separation of religion-from-state
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:00 PM
 
1,701 posts, read 1,998,137 times
Reputation: 1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
JFK was religious. Harper is. Hasn't done a thing about abortion though. Obama is. I think pretty much every American politician has claimed to be religious. Whether their religion has affected their policies, that I don't know about. I can't think of any examples at the moment.

Religious doesn't equal belief in a 5000 year old earth.

And I think he was using scientists more liberally than biologists.

But without quizzing every professional you deal with, how would you ever know what their faith is?
Do you know what you are saying or just typing the first thing that comes into your mind? You cant think of any example? Think stem cell research. Abortion is nearly outlawed in many US states. Think what Bush said before going into the Iraq .....

Quote:
I think, if in a professional position, someone discusses their personal faith, they should be fired
No one cares what you think. Did you read a word about what I said about the Canadian Medical Association's "conscience clause"?
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