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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,894 posts, read 6,256,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbubbles81 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbubbles81 View Post
Since we are keeping it real, I can't think of many countries that split peacefully under a democratic vote and then became enemies - can you?
Ask South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas (the first tranche of states) and ultimately Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas and Tennessee that question.
What on earth are you even talking about?
States that seceded. Hint, it didn't end well. Google "Manassas" or "Battle of Bull Run."
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:32 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,894 posts, read 6,256,417 times
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
OK. We're all going to apologize now for the fact that the uber-hot Marie-Josée Gagnon dumped you and broke your heart when you were studying at McGill in 1983.

Now... can you tone it down a bit?
I didn't study at McGill in 1983 or ever. I visited there for a few days in November 1976, right after the Levesque-Bourassa election.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Canada
170 posts, read 137,203 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I didn't study at McGill in 1983 or ever. I visited there for a few days in November 1976, right after the Levesque-Bourassa election.
That much is obvious, because you are the only nutcase on here talking about the American civil war, as if it has any relevance at all to Quebec separation.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:41 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,894 posts, read 6,256,417 times
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Originally Posted by MattCassidy View Post
That much is obvious, because you are the only nutcase on here talking about the American civil war, as if it has any relevance at all to Quebec separation.
How does it not have relevance? Secession is treason, basically.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Canada
170 posts, read 137,203 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
How does it not have relevance? Secession is treason, basically.
It has no relevance because it is 2015 not 1860 and we are not the United States, we are a different country. It may be tough to understand but in our country that is not the USA the secession of Quebec is entirely legal and determined by a peaceful vote. If you can stop trying to form ridiculous parallels between Quebec and the CSA that would be great. The stuff you are saying is so stupid, seriously.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 100,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I've always been astonished by the reaction of the winning Non side as well.

To use a hockey analogy...

They reacted like they won the game 7-1 with one arm tied behind their backs.

When in actual fact...

The won the game 1-0 in the last minute of double overtime, when the puck was accidentally deflected into the Oui side's net and the referee let the goal stand.

Of course, strictly speaking, a win's a win. That's all that counts. Oct. 31, 1995 everything was business as usual in Canada (including Quebec) administratively.

But politically, something should have changed given such a tight result. It didn't.

My greatest fear is that that fact will come back to bite us in the butt someday.
Yep feels similar to me
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Shawinigan
144 posts, read 100,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
How does it not have relevance? Secession is treason, basically.
What? Secession = treason, well what if you stay in the ship and act like an idiot, wouldn't secession become more like a relief? Treason is when someone help your enemy identifying your weak spot so that he can crush you, otherwise thats food for dictators. if your wife tell you that she's prefer to divorce than fakimg her happyness, that's a treason?

Last edited by Guytar1220; 03-19-2015 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,942 posts, read 27,343,960 times
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Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
You are exactly right. Many people fail to grasp what a nation really means. The modernist interpretation is that a nation is merely everyone living within the borders of a legally sovereign state. This isn't so and is completely contrary to reality. A nation is a group of people with a shared common bond. In the case of Quebecois, they are a distinct people, a nation. Unfortunately, mainstream Quebec separatism is still a fundamentally cosmopolitan movement, albeit slightly less so than the mainstream opposing side (i.e., it is opposed to linguistic cosmopolitanism because it correctly sees how this comes at the expense of the French language in Quebec).

.
I think this is really good and pretty accurate, but why do you say "unfortunately" here?
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:04 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,021,926 times
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think this is really good and pretty accurate, but why do you say "unfortunately" here?
Because I don't agree with it. Wanting to preserve your language is great; you should absolutely want to do that. But it seems rather shallow when you stand to lose almost everything else. To be fair, it's obviously not just a problem with Quebec separatism but all mainstream politics. Maybe in the case of Quebec nationalism it is simply realpolitik, but I doubt it. We can easily see how it's a zero-sum game when it comes to languages: the rise of English in Quebec naturally comes at the expense of French. But the Quebecois people aren't thought of in such a way.

Isn't it unusual how Tibetans can talk about preserving their unique cultural and ethnic attributes and identity against the Chinese who have tried to assimilate them, and they are applauded in the West for doing this, but Westerners must never question the fact that we are subject to ethnic replacement? I find that many people in the West think this is naturally how the modern world works, but that's far from true. In most human societies, the right to preserve your nation is taken for granted. This is true even in advanced nations such as Japan. It's certainly not a matter of disliking any other group of people; it's simply the natural human desire to continue on as a distinct people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCassidy View Post
I don't always agree with modernrebel, but he is spot on. Lots of English-Canadians hate the US. Hell, it's almost a subject in school. It's not even close to comparing it to regional rivalries in the US. On 9/11 I knew more than a few people who were happy that the Americans finally got what they deserved. An (English) group at my school in Montreal actually held a small celebration with wine and cake, I kid you not. AFAIK only a few people went, but you get the idea. If the US was down on it's knees there would plenty of Canadians who would want to go for the coup de grace. I'm not one of them. It's definitely true that the Quebecois are generally a bit more favourable towards Americans. BTW I am an Anglo-Quebecer, I know both sides of this pretty well.

these articles is pretty much spot on:

Canada: A nation of bigots

One day, Brian made a mistake at work, not a big mistake but a mistake. An onlooking colleague turned to another colleague and remarked that Brian was a "typical dumb-ass American." Another colleague asked him, "Is that the way you do it where you come from?"

It was pretty clear from the beginning that this country wasn't eager to welcome him. "My first night in Canada, I was asked to back my vehicle into the driveway so the neighbours did not see the American licence plate. I'm serious!"

Sounds typical to me. Keep in mind these are usually the same people who would usually never dare say the words "dumb ass Indian" or dumb ass Chinese".
Honestly, people like this are so ridiculous I don't even know why I'm wasting my time thinking about them.

As for your other examples, the same thing applies, really. Stupid people annoy me and I've got little tolerance for dealing with them. You're talking about people on the same intellectual level as those here who think we should invade Canada. Every country has their share of such people and for the most part, I don't bother with them because their stupidity makes their opinions worthless to me. The only "intellectual" types who may hold such views are leftists, and my view of them is not much better. Actually, in some ways, I have an even lower opinion of leftists.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Canada
170 posts, read 137,203 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post

As for your other examples, the same thing applies, really. Stupid people annoy me and I've got little tolerance for dealing with them. You're talking about people on the same intellectual level as those here who think we should invade Canada. Every country has their share of such people and for the most part, I don't bother with them because their stupidity makes their opinions worthless to me. The only "intellectual" types who may hold such views are leftists, and my view of them is not much better. Actually, in some ways, I have an even lower opinion of leftists.
The thing is that it isn't a matter of people being stupid, yes there are some of those everywhere. It's a matter of having half of your teachers during your formative years having an anti-American slant. Here in Canada many anglo schools have teachers have fundamental underlying anti-Americanism and so a lot of kids are ingrained with this from day 1. In franco schools, not so much. I remember watching two Michael Moore documentaries in school, and my teacher taught us that this what America is "really like". That Americans are by nature greedy, rude and racist, and in Canada we are by nature compassionate, polite and tolerant. Some Canadians have never been to the US, so this image is their frame of reference for the US. There was a time in my younger years when I was anti-American myself, until I spent some time there and realized that it is mostly BS.

BTW thanks for sharing your opinions, I like hearing your perspective. It is interesting what Americans who don't have a horse in this race think about Quebec independence.
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