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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-02-2015, 12:36 PM
 
34,442 posts, read 41,547,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Of course. Besides being entirely relying on the American economy (what is it 80% of exports to the US?) ROC even copies American speech, dress, technology. Is it not that most people in the world mistake a Canadian for an American?
I'm here in Montreal, i just loaded up on stuff at the local Walmart, Had lunch at Macdonalds drove home in my Chevy and am now watching CNN news,so other than the language i dont see where living in Quebec is any different than living any where else in Canada.
Sure we as Canadians are heavily into American culture and what it has to offer,i sense this bothers you.
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Old 07-02-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,159,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
I'm here in Montreal, i just loaded up on stuff at the local Walmart, Had lunch at Macdonalds drove home in my Chevy and am now watching CNN news,so other than the language i dont see where living in Quebec is any different than living any where else in Canada.
Sure we as Canadians are heavily into American culture and what it has to offer,i sense this bothers you.
Not sure why it would and all provinces rely heavily on trade/exports to the U.S.. Even a separate Quebec would still rely heavily on exports to the U.S as does the R.O.C.. Let's see a nation with 9 times our population largely wanting what we got, for the most part an excellent trading partner with similar values, a 1st world democracy and the largest economy in the world right beside us - hmmmm and why wouldn't we want to be a part of that trade action
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Quebec
30 posts, read 25,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Not sure why it would and all provinces rely heavily on trade/exports to the U.S.. Even a separate Quebec would still rely heavily on exports to the U.S as does the R.O.C.. Let's see a nation with 9 times our population largely wanting what we got, for the most part an excellent trading partner with similar values, a 1st world democracy and the largest economy in the world right beside us - hmmmm and why wouldn't we want to be a part of that trade action
You would be a part of that trade action because Canada has no other choice. Listen to most English Canadians talk and it is clear they have a very big schoolyard grudge against the Americans and love to talk about themselves, then they turn around and play second fiddle to them. All I am asking is to put money where your mouth is! I'm sorry I like English Canada but this arrogance brings it on yourselves!
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:09 AM
 
82 posts, read 76,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Of course. Besides being entirely relying on the American economy (what is it 80% of exports to the US?) ROC even copies American speech, dress, technology. Is it not that most people in the world mistake a Canadian for an American?
Canadian Trade and Investment Activity: Quebec?s Merchandise Trade with the World

Slightly lower than Canada as a whole but still dominated by exports to the US (70.7% vs. 75.8% of merchandise exports).
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Old 07-03-2015, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Quebec
30 posts, read 25,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Frankly View Post
Canadian Trade and Investment Activity: Quebec?s Merchandise Trade with the World

Slightly lower than Canada as a whole but still dominated by exports to the US (70.7% vs. 75.8% of merchandise exports).
In my defense, we don't copy the Americans in every facet of life and then constantly talk trash behind their backs. Most English Canadians hate Americans despite being entirely dependent on them (economically, culturally, militarily). It begins in public school where they are indoctrinated with anti-American (and by definition, pro-Canadian) jargon. I think it is hypocritical to be so anti-American while being totally dependent on them and willingly replacing your own culture with theirs.
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Old 07-03-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,159,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
You would be a part of that trade action because Canada has no other choice. Listen to most English Canadians talk and it is clear they have a very big schoolyard grudge against the Americans and love to talk about themselves, then they turn around and play second fiddle to them. All I am asking is to put money where your mouth is! I'm sorry I like English Canada but this arrogance brings it on yourselves!
You trying to personify Anglo Canada with this schoolyard grudge, talk about themselves, putting money where your mouth is, arrogance mumbo jumbo nonsense talk instead of focusing on logical reasoning.

Secondly, if the U.S ceased to exist there would be a trade vacuum and you know what would happen - Canada would focus its economic energies on other markets. It just so happens that the U.S does exist and it is logical and geographically convenient to focus our energies on the largest economic power in the world that just happens to be right beside us who wants to buy our products and services. Doing a lot of business with such a country under such circumstances just makes sense. You are allowing emotions to get the better of you.

Again I will say to you - Quebec a part of Canada (or even a separate nation) like other Provinces in Canada would continue to rely on trade with the U.S quite heavily and in either case it would make sense. Would an independent Quebec suddenly trade more with France than the U.S? Don't worry, English Canada won't use it against you for having a heavy reliance on trade with the U.S and there is no logical argument in the case of any Province including Quebec to decrease a trading relationship with the U.S..

Who is sounding like they have a grudge here lol?
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Old 07-03-2015, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Montreal
359 posts, read 264,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
In my defense, we don't copy the Americans in every facet of life and then constantly talk trash behind their backs. Most English Canadians hate Americans despite being entirely dependent on them (economically, culturally, militarily). It begins in public school where they are indoctrinated with anti-American (and by definition, pro-Canadian) jargon. I think it is hypocritical to be so anti-American while being totally dependent on them and willingly replacing your own culture with theirs.
I like that term school yard grudge...it's a good way to describe the renowned anglo Canadian inferiority complex. But on to other matters Quebec does rely heavily on the US too, but I I am sure you'll agree that it isn't accompanied by the crippling hypocrisy of belittling all things American whilst jealously copying them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Not sure why it would and all provinces rely heavily on trade/exports to the U.S.. Even a separate Quebec would still rely heavily on exports to the U.S as does the R.O.C.. Let's see a nation with 9 times our population largely wanting what we got, for the most part an excellent trading partner with similar values, a 1st world democracy and the largest economy in the world right beside us - hmmmm and why wouldn't we want to be a part of that trade action
I agree, it is logical for anglo Canada to attach themselves to the US economically, but what about culturally militarily and politically? And all while belittling Americans as part of "national culture"? I find it all somewhat petty to base a culture on being "Not American" when they are friendly and benevolent neighbours. It would be understandable if the US regularly threatened us with invasions or harm, but they don't. It's like belittling a guy who is your best friend, while at the same time you live off of him, copy his dress and speech, rely on him for protection and use your close association with him to further your own reputation in the world. Meanwhile he generally has good things to say about you and is a good friend. Isn't that somewhat petty?
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Old 07-03-2015, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post

I agree, it is logical for anglo Canada to attach themselves to the US economically, but what about culturally militarily and politically? And all while belittling Americans as part of "national culture"? I find it all somewhat petty to base a culture on being "Not American" when they are friendly and benevolent neighbours. It would be understandable if the US regularly threatened us with invasions or harm, but they don't. It's like belittling a guy who is your best friend, while at the same time you live off of him, copy his dress and speech, rely on him for protection and use your close association with him to further your own reputation in the world. Meanwhile he generally has good things to say about you and is a good friend. Isn't that somewhat petty?
I don't see the issue in the cultural attachment as you say. Besides we both know the others' view on this ad-nauseum.. You don't see a cultural distinction and the only thing defining Canadian identity is a proclamation that we aren't American and you repeat that talking point like a broken record over and over again - I disagree, oh well!.. I don't think we'll see the light of a compromise in this life and on this issue Pbeau..

As for military and political attachment if you will, well part of it goes hand in hand with our overall attachment to the U.S and also just having a similar worldview as they do.. There's nothing wrong with it.. We are not too dissimilar in the grand scheme of things and that is ok. With that said, there are plenty enough examples of political issues where the two have not and are not of parallel views and approach. I'd even add, militarily Canada has not done enough as the U.S (quite obvious and demonstrable) to defend our mutual interests of geographic defense of Canamerica through Norad. I think the U.S would love to see Canada pony up more than a meagre 1.2 percent of GDP on military spending and increase to 2 percent. The U.S dedicates 4.4 percent of GDP to military spending so there are differences there and in this case it does not reflect well on Canada.

As for belittling the U.S - again its this never ending search for personification of an entire country and all its people and I just don't see it.. The only part where I think there is a kernel of truth is that because it is the much smaller country in terms of population, there may be a feeling that the bigger neighbour may be a bit smothering so there is a desire to express a distinction. I think the extent of the 'belittling' as you call it is very overplayed and actions by Canada and Canadians as a whole including Quebecers has been one of a great neighbour and friend overall. 9/11 being a shining example.. Besides, on these forums anyway, take a look at some comments from Americans re Canadians and you could very well apply the words belittling and dismissiveness as well. I count them and the Canadians with a low opinion of Americans to be in the minority.. This sentiment will certainly do nothing to spoil the overall good relationship between the two nations. I appreciate it on a personal level, but I also know as someone very well travelled that there is a whole world of cultures and people out there Pbeau.. The world is bigger than our continent and we should all explore it!
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Canada
325 posts, read 295,613 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't see the issue in the cultural attachment as you say. Besides we both know the others' view on this ad-nauseum.. You don't see a cultural distinction and the only thing defining Canadian identity is a proclamation that we aren't American and you repeat that talking point like a broken record over and over again - I disagree, oh well!.. I don't think we'll see the light of a compromise in this life and on this issue Pbeau..

As for military and political attachment if you will, well part of it goes hand in hand with our overall attachment to the U.S and also just having a similar worldview as they do.. There's nothing wrong with it.. We are not too dissimilar in the grand scheme of things and that is ok. With that said, there are plenty enough examples of political issues where the two have not and are not of parallel views and approach. I'd even add, militarily Canada has not done enough as the U.S (quite obvious and demonstrable) to defend our mutual interests of geographic defense of Canamerica through Norad. I think the U.S would love to see Canada pony up more than a meagre 1.2 percent of GDP on military spending and increase to 2 percent. The U.S dedicates 4.4 percent of GDP to military spending so there are differences there and in this case it does not reflect well on Canada.

As for belittling the U.S - again its this never ending search for personification of an entire country and all its people and I just don't see it.. The only part where I think there is a kernel of truth is that because it is the much smaller country in terms of population, there may be a feeling that the bigger neighbour may be a bit smothering so there is a desire to express a distinction. I think the extent of the 'belittling' as you call it is very overplayed and actions by Canada and Canadians as a whole including Quebecers has been one of a great neighbour and friend overall. 9/11 being a shining example.. Besides, on these forums anyway, take a look at some comments from Americans re Canadians and you could very well apply the words belittling and dismissiveness as well. I count them and the Canadians with a low opinion of Americans to be in the minority.. This sentiment will certainly do nothing to spoil the overall good relationship between the two nations. I appreciate it on a personal level, but I also know as someone very well travelled that there is a whole world of cultures and people out there Pbeau.. The world is bigger than our continent and we should all explore it!
PBeauchamp is right here. The ROC has tried to copy American culture and usually it comes out as corny. Like my idiot neighbour who puts on a faux New York accent and calls women broads. I've yet to come across an American who tries hard to say "aboot" and spells colour with a "u".
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,159,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernrebel View Post
PBeauchamp is right here. The ROC has tried to copy American culture and usually it comes out as corny. Like my idiot neighbour who puts on a faux New York accent and calls women broads. I've yet to come across an American who tries hard to say "aboot" and spells colour with a "u".
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I can't relate to your corny neighbour!

On another note, I invite my esteemed Canadians Colleagues to get involved in another interesting thread here in the world section

Do you think the USA and Canada are the world's two most similar countries?

Read all about it - especially a certain view about women and gays serving in the military which I find quite interesting along with the premise by some that Canadians are simply 'copycats' of the U.S...

Anyway the tread is more interesting than some of the endless threads on the genre because although certain individuals have an agenda in it - it certainly is a step up from the 'aboot' people

Last edited by fusion2; 07-10-2015 at 07:06 PM..
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