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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-13-2016, 10:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post

The failure of Montreal police or the QPP in protecting the rights and property of Jews in recent years. Jewish historical memory is to get moving fast when authorities allow mayhem to proceed and/or go unpunished. For example the Czar's armies didn't foment the pogroms that drove Jews to the U.S. and Canada; they stood by and let drunken peasant mobs have their way. Apparently ditto Quebec.
Reminds me of the time Quebec police stood by and watched francophones rain mayhem down on Montreals neighboring Indian community= sickening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1coZQ7qKkt4
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Reminds me of the time Quebec police stood by and watched francophones rain mayhem down on Montreals neighboring Indian community= sickening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1coZQ7qKkt4
I would never justify that disgusting behaviour, but like any such event it needs to be placed in the proper context.

Tens of thousands of people were held hostage by the native protests. And the closure of the bridge for the entire summer forced similar amounts of people into two 2-3 hour commutes every single day for several months, as opposed to 30 minutes under normal circumstances (when the bridge was open).

In such circumstances, people start to get hot under the collar and ugly things happen.

BTW, as you can see in the video the cops involved are Canadian federal police (RCMP) and not Quebec provincial police (SQ). A very close relative of mine spent the summer working on the ''crisis'', though he was not at the rock-throwing scene.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:57 AM
 
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The closing of the bridge was a protest against the government allowing construction on Indian land in Oka and while the bridge that was on their land was closed as part of the protest and it may have inconvenienced many me included the stoning of a convoy of Indians who needed to evacuate the reservation for various reasons was reprehensible.
As for the cops there were SQ and RCMP that looked the other way as this savage attack took place.
A review of the situation=
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...le/oka-crisis/
Anyhow not to hijack the thread but Jbgusa's comment of "they stood by and let drunken peasant mobs have their way" rang a bell..
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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It was a complex issue. The Mohawk Warriors were no angels but the media in Anglo Canada made them into heroes because they were in conflict with Quebec. Note that there anglophones on the south shore of Montreal who were affected by this and their views were not any different than those of francophones.

"Bad Frenchies!" is not political and historical analysis, guys.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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If a group of people blocked, out of sympathy for a cause elsewhere, the only access points into Toronto from Mississauga and points west and everyone had to go through Barrie to go from Mississauga-Oakville-Hamilton-Niagara to get to Toronto, for a period of three months in the summer, I wonder if everyone without exception would remain zen for the entire time.

Last edited by Acajack; 02-14-2016 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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It is also worth noting that public opinion in Quebec was very pro-Mohawk in the early stages of the Oka crisis. The mayor of Oka who wanted the golf course expanded onto the Mohawk cemetery was seen as a bit of a dick.

This changed when the Mohawks killed SQ Cpl Marcel Lemay and it worsened with the very long sympathy blockade at the Mercier bridge, that was not even in the Oka area.
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Old 02-14-2016, 12:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

This changed when the Mohawks killed SQ Cpl Marcel Lemay and it worsened with the very long sympathy blockade at the Mercier bridge, that was not even in the Oka area.
Are you trying to imply the OKA and Kanawaki incidents werent related?
Also the SQ cop got himself shot when his incompetent gang of buffoons invaded Indian territory.
Whatever the reason or cause there was no justification for francophones rock throwing response while police stood by and watched.
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Old 02-14-2016, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Also the SQ cop got himself shot when his incompetent gang of buffoons invaded Indian territory.
.
One of the main reasons Cpl. Lemay was killed was that the SQ guys were sitting ducks as when they launched the assault (which I agree was ill-advised), the Mohawk Warriors had lined up women and children among them when they fired at the SQ.

BTW, according to polls and petitions the majority of townspeople in Oka (all of them non-natives) were also against expanding the golf course on the native burial ground.
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
One of the main reasons Cpl. Lemay was killed was that the SQ guys were sitting ducks as when they launched the assault (which I agree was ill-advised), the Mohawk Warriors had lined up women and children among them when they fired at the SQ.

BTW, according to polls and petitions the majority of townspeople in Oka (all of them non-natives) were also against expanding the golf course on the native burial ground.

Sounds like you are making up your own reality about the circumstances, the way i remember it being reported was like this=
Quote:
Lemay was killed by a bullet whose source has never been officially determined.[5] Rumours circulated that the reason no source had been determined was that it had been a police bullet and that Cpl. Lemay had been conducting an internal investigation which was connecting the death of two Mohawk men to SQ guns.
As for what the citizens of Oka thought is irrelevant because the Indian reservation (Kanesataki)starts a mile to the west of the town of Oka. Ultimately the governments unwillingness to back off from giving the ok for private sources to build on Indian land resulted in=
Quote:
20+ CF wounded.
10 Constables hospitalized.
1 SQ Groupe d'Intervention operative killed.
1 Mohawk elder killed.
Numerous detained, ~100 charged.
75+ wounded

Last edited by jambo101; 02-15-2016 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The government wanted no part of the Jews, and vice versa.
Sorry to break this to you, but the whole world does not revolve around Jews.


The issue at the time in Quebec was not ethnic or religious. It was linguistic.


There were in the mid-1970s, compared to today, even a good number of anglophones in Quebec who were of French Canadian descent who somehow over time lost knowledge of French in their families. These people had an outmigration rate similar to other groups as well who did not want to live in a Quebec where the societal conditions that compelled one to learn decent French and use it from time to time was on the upswing.


Not that "not knowing French" and "not wanting to use French from time to time" are not unchangeable conditions like the colour of one's skin. But anyway...


Much of Quebec's anglophone population had hitherto been accustomed to living (linguisitically anyway) as they would in Oakville, Ontario or Cherry Hill, New Jersey. When the writing was on the wall that that would no longer be the case, a large number of them voted with their feet.


It's also worth mentioning that their entire publicly-funded institutional network was nonetheless protected including schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, etc.


McGill is still close to the top-ranked university in Canada in 2016 and the Quebec government has just built a 1 billion dollar anglophone public superhospital in Montreal for the anglo community.


What really changed for the community's members was the (partial) loss of the ability to compel everyone they encontered in their everyday lives from A to Z to switch languages (ie to English) just for them.


For a lot of people, it seems like that was too much to accept.
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