U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 111 64.91%
No 60 35.09%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-11-2019, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,714 posts, read 11,252,745 times
Reputation: 3820

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowhound View Post
What about those of us who had lived in Quebec for generations? Were just supposed to leave?

It wasnt fun for younger me to basically be forced out of where I grew up and called home, due to being the wrong ethnicity. One after another almost all of us left and had to start over in Ontario or BC or America or elsewhere.

Is that really what you endorse?
Well I wouldn't be staying somewhere all my life I resented and had a snowballs chance in Singapore of materially changing. There are people dying in the world crossing Ocean's and Sea's to escape a place they so resented, and have nowhere else to go in their home country because everywhere is the same. In Canada you are fortunate to have the choice. I'm sure you're fine in Oakville, it is one of the wealthiest places in the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-12-2019, 07:21 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,241 posts, read 6,408,385 times
Reputation: 12542
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowhound View Post
What about those of us who had lived in Quebec for generations? Were just supposed to leave?

It wasnt fun for younger me to basically be forced out of where I grew up and called home, due to being the wrong ethnicity. One after another almost all of us left and had to start over in Ontario or BC or America or elsewhere.

Is that really what you endorse?
Well I wouldn't be staying somewhere all my life I resented and had a snowballs chance in Singapore of materially changing. There are people dying in the world crossing Ocean's and Sea's to escape a place they so resented, and have nowhere else to go in their home country because everywhere is the same. In Canada you are fortunate to have the choice. I'm sure you're fine in Oakville, it is one of the wealthiest places in the country.
In many respects, Quebec's anti-English hostility is reminiscent of the German Nuremberg laws. People facing legislation essentially depriving them of equal protection are often well-advised to leave, even if the result in not fatal.

When Snowhound was born, presumably, Quebeckers of both languages assumed they had the rights of Canadians. When Lower Canada organized its Parliament (now called Assemblée nationale du Québec for some reason) in the 1790's, the decision was made to allow debate in both the English and French languages. Indeed, engraved signs in French and English, albeit with French being in the predominate position, are present throughout the Old City of Quebec. When the Quiet Revolution hit, and asserting a "nationality", no doubt with U.N. aid attached became fashionable throughout the world, French politicians went on the warpath. De Gaulle famously asserted "Vive le Québec Libre ! - Charles de Gaulle 1967" while visiting Expo '67, Lester Pearson pointedly informed him he was interfering in Canada's internal affairs. His successor, Trudeau the Smarter reacted quite strongly to revolutionary activities in October 1970. The response became one of appeasement.

Robert Bourassa, the Liberal Premier of Quebec shepherded through Bill 22, the first major anti-English legislation, restricting English language signs. Bill 101, during Rene Levesque's mandate, revolutionized Quebec education. Both had the effect of rendering Anglophones people unwelcome in their homes. Snowhound makes a powerful point here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,152 posts, read 27,595,015 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
In many respects, Quebec's anti-English hostility is reminiscent of the German Nuremberg laws. People facing legislation essentially depriving them of equal protection are often well-advised to leave, even if the result in not fatal.

When Snowhound was born, presumably, Quebeckers of both languages assumed they had the rights of Canadians. When Lower Canada organized its Parliament (now called Assemblée nationale du Québec for some reason) in the 1790's, the decision was made to allow debate in both the English and French languages. Indeed, engraved signs in French and English, albeit with French being in the predominate position, are present throughout the Old City of Quebec. When the Quiet Revolution hit, and asserting a "nationality", no doubt with U.N. aid attached became fashionable throughout the world, French politicians went on the warpath. De Gaulle famously asserted "Vive le Québec Libre ! - Charles de Gaulle 1967" while visiting Expo '67, Lester Pearson pointedly informed him he was interfering in Canada's internal affairs. His successor, Trudeau the Smarter reacted quite strongly to revolutionary activities in October 1970. The response became one of appeasement.

Robert Bourassa, the Liberal Premier of Quebec shepherded through Bill 22, the first major anti-English legislation, restricting English language signs. Bill 101, during Rene Levesque's mandate, revolutionized Quebec education. Both had the effect of rendering Anglophones people unwelcome in their homes. Snowhound makes a powerful point here.
It's understandable that people not be thrilled at seeing the rules of the game change in this way, but given the unwillingness/inability/hostility towards adapting to the new situation, and the obsession with retaining a dominant position over the numerically superior yet downtrodden masses of another "ethnicity", it's really hard to see these guys as heroic freedom fighters.


Not to mention that hundreds of thousands of Anglo-Quebecers did adapt and are still here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 09:59 AM
 
66 posts, read 21,140 times
Reputation: 68
I won't be made to feel bad for recognizing the fact that unless we take some measures against the linguistic steamroller that is the clear lingua franca of North America and the world, we'll cease to exist within a couple generations.

All of your (jbgusa) whining can be directly traced to that one observation, BTW.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 10:14 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,483 posts, read 6,712,236 times
Reputation: 14774
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I won't be made to feel bad for recognizing the fact that unless we take some measures against the linguistic steamroller that is the clear lingua franca of North America and the world, we'll cease to exist within a couple generations.

All of your (jbgusa) whining can be directly traced to that one observation, BTW.
Sorry but that doesn't make one iota of sense to me. I was relating to a lot of your posts until you said that. There is no reason why any peoples' existence would be dependent on the languages that any people use. If that's how Quebecois think about themselves, as losers, then I think that's silly and childish and it's no wonder they're having problems with all their control issues. Thinking that way does make losers out of people.
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Québec
48 posts, read 28,523 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Sorry but that doesn't make one iota of sense to me. I was relating to a lot of your posts until you said that. There is no reason why any peoples' existence would be dependent on the languages that any people use. If that's how Quebecois think about themselves, as losers, then I think that's silly and childish and it's no wonder they're having problems with all their control issues. Thinking that way does make losers out of people.
.
Language is common factor of identity in any society. ask anyone in Belgium, Switzerland, or anywhere else. You wouldn't get it since English Canada doesn't have a identity!

The part about being losers sounds more like English Canada's famous insecurity with the Americans. Why do you have Canadian Content?

lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Saint-Aimé-des-Lacs, Québec
171 posts, read 156,739 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowhound View Post
If someone is insulting my country and my queen without justification or rebuke then yes I will say something.

Quebec can do what they want but Im not happy about the fact that so many of them sit around humiliating Canada when they get more free handouts than anyone. Either get your independence or keep it to yourself.
It isnt fair to all the people in Quebec who dont want anything to do with this to just say sure you can be independent off of a vote of 51%. We owe it the Canadian citizens residing there to do better than that.

Even with desperate hispanic and middle eastern immigrants flooding into to the country from god knows where and the rising cost of rents and housing we still have to cowtow to the Quebecios malcontents. It gets tiresome really.



Thats ironic because you just proclaimed that another poster named UrbanLuis becomes frustrated quite easily. You should work on getting your reps to a higher ratio like me. Apparently someone is agreeing with me.
So you can't stand us, but you also don't want us to get independence?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,152 posts, read 27,595,015 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Manners View Post
Language is common factor of identity in any society. ask anyone in Belgium, Switzerland, or anywhere else. You wouldn't get it since English Canada doesn't have a identity!
This is especially true of Quebec, which unlike a place like Japan (and in spite of what people often accuse us of), is not an ethnic bloodline based society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,152 posts, read 27,595,015 times
Reputation: 8681
[SIZE=3][/SIZE][SIZE=3]To followup on the issue of « identity without language » a bit more, yes insome cases it’s possible for groups to undergo language loss or transfer andstill retain their identity (or some semblance of their identity). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE][SIZE=3]But inorder for that to happen you generally either need to base the identity onsomething else like ethnicity/bloodline exclusivity (as in the case of various indigenous groups)or an independent state (Ireland is the most obvious example).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2019, 11:54 AM
 
66 posts, read 21,140 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Sorry but that doesn't make one iota of sense to me. I was relating to a lot of your posts until you said that. There is no reason why any peoples' existence would be dependent on the languages that any people use.
Actually, that is incorrect in cases where culturally distinct People A are a smaller group within much larger People B. They'll "merge into" People B within a few generations if you're "not careful".

And just as I "understand" pro-French-language measures in Quebec, I also understand (and am perfectly fine with) anti-French-language measures in the Flemish Brabant. The logic is the exact same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Canada
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top