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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 147 65.04%
No 79 34.96%
Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-18-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,776 posts, read 37,717,092 times
Reputation: 11550

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
So as a great nation we can allow a people to determine their own destiny. That is a better approach than throwing history in their face. Time for everyone to move on. In this case, the future becomes more important than the past.
Yeah, it's always shocking to have people use "well you guys lost the war so shut the F up" as if it was a valid argument. Not exactly a good foundation to build a strong country.

Imagine an American telling African-Americans their ancestors lost some war or battle long ago, and that as a result they should shut the F up about the stuff they're displeased with today.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Kailua, Hawaii
16 posts, read 11,611 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Imagine an American telling African-Americans their ancestors lost some war or battle long ago, and that as a result they should shut the F up about the stuff they're displeased with today.

Based only off of this forum...American people tend to be a little more...understanding than that.


I've never had anyone say this type of stuff to me, that's for sure.


I don't know alot about Canada but this is eye-opening. To put it lightly.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:23 AM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,513 posts, read 16,599,025 times
Reputation: 29686
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
So as a great nation we can allow a people to determine their own destiny. That is a better approach than throwing history in their face. Time for everyone to move on. In this case, the future becomes more important than the past.
It's a great way to have wars to allow losers to continually relitigate the loss.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,776 posts, read 37,717,092 times
Reputation: 11550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
It's a great way to have wars to allow losers to continually relitigate the loss.
Yes of course, punishing Germany to make it hurt after World War 1 really worked out well...
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,318,279 times
Reputation: 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, it's always shocking to have people use "well you guys lost the war so shut the F up" as if it was a valid argument. Not exactly a good foundation to build a strong country.

Imagine an American telling African-Americans their ancestors lost some war or battle long ago, and that as a result they should shut the F up about the stuff they're displeased with today.
The worst part about that is saying "oh you lost the war now you are a bunch of leeches".
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,776 posts, read 37,717,092 times
Reputation: 11550
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
The worst part about that is saying "oh you lost the war now you are a bunch of leeches".
Makes me feel all "maple-leafy" inside.
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:14 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,513 posts, read 16,599,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes of course, punishing Germany to make it hurt after World War 1 really worked out well...
That was an extreme case. France and the U.K. were broke after WWI and thought that bleeding Germany dry was a great place to make it up. However, the "German" example has its limits. Germany's sense of national identity was uniquely weak to begin with and they along with what became the U.S.S.R. were prone to totalitarianism. The "one world" U.S. State Department types fed the myth to which you are referring for the U.S. to go on a do-good spending streak called the Marshall Plan.

By your logic, however, the Union's victory in the Civil War should be revisited because of the hardship to slave-owners. Maybe while we're at it we should relitigate all of the victories over First Nations/Native Americans and give back the continent. Maybe, if we all "go back" to from where our ancestors came, the Great Rift Valley could become a very crowded place.

In general, I do not believe we should be overly harsh when we win a war. But sometimes things need to be settled, whether on the Plains of Abraham, at Appomattox, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Berlin or otherwise. Exhibit "A" for the misery of unfinished war is the Middle East; Exhibit "B" Jammu and Kashmir.
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Old 08-18-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,494 posts, read 15,380,201 times
Reputation: 11930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, it's always shocking to have people use "well you guys lost the war so shut the F up" as if it was a valid argument. Not exactly a good foundation to build a strong country.

Imagine an American telling African-Americans their ancestors lost some war or battle long ago, and that as a result they should shut the F up about the stuff they're displeased with today.
We agree on this.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,106 posts, read 15,737,743 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah, it's always shocking to have people use "well you guys lost the war so shut the F up" as if it was a valid argument. Not exactly a good foundation to build a strong country.

Imagine an American telling African-Americans their ancestors lost some war or battle long ago, and that as a result they should shut the F up about the stuff they're displeased with today.
Exactly - I just don't see any relevance to that anymore. Is this supposed to be something that we truly value now? I think what we collectively built as a nation in the here in now, is more impressive than some war 250 years ago that could have gone either way. At this point we are here, where we are, we either make the best of it and try to work things out or we keep bickering and living in the past...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
It's a great way to have wars to allow losers to continually relitigate the loss.
Pretty low blow. If people want to have a fair discussion about equalization payments, that is fine, but to somehow just relegate QC's contributions over the last 150 plus years to this country as simply that of leeches is just myopic.

Last edited by fusion2; 08-19-2019 at 06:56 PM..
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:33 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,513 posts, read 16,599,025 times
Reputation: 29686
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Pretty low blow. If people want to have a fair discussion about equalization payments, that is fine, but to somehow just relegate QC's contributions over the last 150 plus years to this country as simply that of leeches is just myopic.
I didn't say that. What I said was that Quebec separatism is an effort to relitigate the Seven Years War. And Canada's been trying to bribe them, without notable success, into staying as willing partners.
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