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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 116 65.17%
No 62 34.83%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2019, 02:04 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,416 posts, read 6,490,547 times
Reputation: 12634

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
JBG I'm still not sure why you bring up the U.S. Civil War.
Just to admit that the U.S. has a history of draft resistance as well. It undercuts my argument but omitting it would be intellectually dishonest.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:56 AM
 
119 posts, read 45,372 times
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No, it is not legitimate. The ROC should adopt French as the sole official language. All Canadians, except First Nations peoples, should assimilate to Canadian French (west of Quebec) or Acadian French (east of Quebec). That would solve the division by language and give all Canadians a good, strong sense of identity vis-a-vis their loving, generous, big-hearted American neighbors.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️
7,597 posts, read 6,782,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzmann View Post
No, it is not legitimate. The ROC should adopt French as the sole official language. All Canadians, except First Nations peoples, should assimilate to Canadian French (west of Quebec) or Acadian French (east of Quebec). That would solve the division by language and give all Canadians a good, strong sense of identity vis-a-vis their loving, generous, big-hearted American neighbors.
No it wouldn't solve anything, because there'd still be a division between Canadian French speakers and Acadian French speakers and one or both of the two factions would still be continuing the same old nonsense of feuding about which one of them is best and more deserving. Because engrained old habits of arrogant malcontentment and sniveling die hard - just like the feud between the Hatfields and the McCoys who eventually forgot what the original feud was about but continued with it anyway from force of habit. And for extra added spice they would both be feuding and ragging on endlessly against all the First Nations people for not willingly deciding to give up their own native languages and their native identities and adopting only French ways as a show of support.
.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
22,276 posts, read 27,741,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
No it wouldn't solve anything, because there'd still be a division between Canadian French speakers and Acadian French speakers and one or both of the two factions would still be continuing the same old nonsense of feuding about which one of them is best and more deserving.
.

Pretty sure that if we transitioned from the status quo to having French as Canada's only official language, that we (Québécois, Acadiens, Franco-Ontariens, etc.) could find a way to get along!
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Montreal
464 posts, read 290,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
You know, as much as everyone likes to trumpet how much different and unique they are from other assembled human beings, one thing I think is a sort of Pan-national sentiment is what you just wrote here. In this sense, neither QC nor the R.O.C is anything like what we were 250 years ago.
Believe me, fusion2, It's not because I have any sort of pan-national sentiment. It's because this way Quebec can declare independence any time we choose, knowing that you'll never do anything about it. This is a beneficial card to have in your back pocket.
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Montreal
464 posts, read 290,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzmann View Post
No, it is not legitimate. The ROC should adopt French as the sole official language. All Canadians, except First Nations peoples, should assimilate to Canadian French (west of Quebec) or Acadian French (east of Quebec). That would solve the division by language and give all Canadians a good, strong sense of identity vis-a-vis their loving, generous, big-hearted American neighbors.
Anglo Canadians have their rights too.

I would settle for a more reasonable approach.

- Devolution of Canadian government giving Quebec autonomous power over it's own fate

- Dissolution of monarchy, or ability for Quebec to disregard monarchy, like taking the Queen off the money

- powers to give complete protection to French language in Quebec, New Brunswick, and northern Ontario

- Quebec has own seat at UN and own Olympics team separate from Canada

- 50/50 split between Quebec and Canada in diplomatic affairs

- more autonomy for French language units in the military

- ability for Quebec to skip military ventures like Afghanistan
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,340,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
Believe me, fusion2, It's not because I have any sort of pan-national sentiment. It's because this way Quebec can declare independence any time we choose, knowing that you'll never do anything about it. This is a beneficial card to have in your back pocket.
Well you may have sentiment instilled in you from a pan-national perspective and you don't even know it. Canada has a way of ooooozing into you insidiously, and just taking you over with this sort of natural instinct to be polite, considerate but just a bit smug. You would never pick up a gun against your present or past countrymen, because the thought of holding a gun naturally repulses you. You are a lover NOT a fighter and you fear guns and fighting - but you don't fear passion.

Sure, the internet warrior in you can come out being all brash and 'assertive' but inside you just by nature want to respect and love your fellow man - even your fellow English man who you secretly Love but are always embarrassed to admit it. Even if he is a bit more pink than you are, you like the contrast and the balance he provides.

Seriously though, i'm all for established regions of Canada being able to declare independence without others doing anything about it. Heck, if my Province separated right now it would be the 17th largest economy in the world with a higher GDP than Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Poland, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Greece etc etc etc but i'm all in with Canada - it's a great place for me. Anyway, It is the ultimate expression of Canadian civility for that being in our DNA. It is our greatest strength. What you snicker at actually is something that is a part of our core and for me, this is actually what the world needs more of. It would be a better place for sure!

Last edited by fusion2; 08-23-2019 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:37 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,416 posts, read 6,490,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartzmann View Post
No, it is not legitimate. The ROC should adopt French as the sole official language. All Canadians, except First Nations peoples, should assimilate to Canadian French (west of Quebec) or Acadian French (east of Quebec). That would solve the division by language and give all Canadians a good, strong sense of identity vis-a-vis their loving, generous, big-hearted American neighbors.
Is this satire?
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Montreal
464 posts, read 290,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well you may have sentiment instilled in you from a pan-national perspective and you don't even know it. Canada has a way of ooooozing into you insidiously, and just taking you over with this sort of natural instinct to be polite, considerate but just a bit smug. You would never pick up a gun against your present or past countrymen, because the thought of holding a gun naturally repulses you. You are a lover NOT a fighter and you fear guns and fighting - but you don't fear passion.

Sure, the internet warrior in you can come out being all brash and 'assertive' but inside you just by nature want to respect and love your fellow man - even your fellow English man who you secretly Love but are always embarrassed to admit it. Even if he is a bit more pink than you are, you like the contrast and the balance he provides.

Seriously though, i'm all for established regions of Canada being able to declare independence without others doing anything about it. Heck, if my Province separated right now it would be the 17th largest economy in the world with a higher GDP than Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Poland, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Greece etc etc etc but i'm all in with Canada - it's a great place for me. Anyway, It is the ultimate expression of Canadian civility for that being in our DNA. It is our greatest strength. What you snicker at actually is something that is a part of our core and for me, this is actually what the world needs more of. It would be a better place for sure!
No, really I don't have any sense of pan-national sentiment.

I don't consider Quebec and British Columbia to be the same nation of people, anymore than I consider Quebec and Kentucky as the same nation of people.

I am neither for nor against them. They just happen to be a nearby group of people.

The myth of Canadian civility and all of that nonsense is largely invented to make up for the lack of actual cultural indicators like speech, cuisine, traditions, etc.

Canadians aren't any nicer than anyone else. That's an individual characteristic.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,894 posts, read 11,340,974 times
Reputation: 3913
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBeauchamp View Post
No, really I don't have any sense of pan-national sentiment.

I don't consider Quebec and British Columbia to be the same nation of people, anymore than I consider Quebec and Kentucky as the same nation of people.

I am neither for nor against them. They just happen to be a nearby group of people.

The myth of Canadian civility and all of that nonsense is largely invented to make up for the lack of actual cultural indicators like speech, cuisine, traditions, etc.

Canadians aren't any nicer than anyone else. That's an individual characteristic.
I would absolutely never expect this persona put before me to ever admit any kinship with the rest of Canada. Who you identify with however, in terms of the nation or group of people you belong to is of course, entirely up to you.

To your last sentence, I somewhat agree. I do think 'niceness' about Canadians is overrated. There is a general politeness that is probably more pervasive in our culture than others, but i'm not sure if Canada is 'nicer' collectively. Policy wise, we are relatively high up there in terms progressivism, I think this is something that is collective and reflective of shared values. Is it enough, yes it would be for the rest of Canada and probably the majority of Quebecers who never seem to dismiss the value of Canada.

Hey though, if there ever comes a day where you and your people don't 'need' Canada, you can certainly test out your theory in practice.
Let me know how that goes. I'm sure you would be honest as always lol..

Last edited by fusion2; 08-26-2019 at 02:15 AM..
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