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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-09-2014, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMike91 View Post
Acajack thanks for your help I think your posts are very informative. Do you mean that the governments policies arent doing anything? If francophones outside of Quebec are being assimilated right now maybe something more should be done. What about inside of Quebec did French stop declining? Thanks for your help I think your posts are very informative. I don't know any francophones personally so this is my only way to see your point of view. I have been skeptical of the Quebec/Canada relationship but I never tried to see it from the francophone view until recently.

Well, the results of enhanced rights and services for francophones outside Quebec are mixed. In some cases they arrived too late as the communities were too far gone down the path of assimilation to save them. In others like in New Brunswick and (maybe) Ontario it stabilized things to some degree. Especially in New Brunswick.

As for Quebec itself there is some debate about Montreal but I'd say that even there there are good signs for French. French is making good inroads with the immigrant communities there.

For example, tonight I was on the Impact soccer club Facebook page and contrary to the Montreal Canadiens page where the banter is very bilingual in French and English, the Impact page is very predominantly in French with people of all origins (judging from their names) exchanging in French about soccer. I think you can see where I am going: the soccer crowd is much more a new Montreal crowd and made up of more recent immigrants. The Canadiens hockey crowd still has lots of francophones in it of course but it also has way more immigrants (or their descendants) who came to Montreal when English had a more dominant place in the city.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I most certainly do not want Quebec to separate..

I am most certainly tired of the issue and do indeed think the current situation, while currently improved, is one of temporary duration because there have been periods of relative harmony before only to culminate in a re-birth of animosity.

I stated my belief that separation is inevitable UNLESS something remarkable happens of an hitherto unparalleled degree to change the dynamic.

My hope is that someone with vision comes to the table and fosters a dialogue of co-operation acceptable to even the most intransigent of White Rose'rs and/or Separatistes et-al.

Sadly, that won't happen, if history is any judge, until another referendum is imminent and by which time rigid battle lines have already been drawn.
It seems when the topic of what can we all do to build a more united and harmonious union comes up nobody wants to actively discuss those points in a meaningful manner in C/D... Its one hard line or the other. Your experiences opened my eyes to the fact that this isn't just a one-sided debate.

I hope that the younger generations are more amicable with one another and we start the process of healing and further integration while respecting and maintaining what makes us unique and different. Though I do disagree that separation is inevitable.. The union may not be as strong as we would like but we'll keep trudging along like a 50's American car in Cuba.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
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Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
That is good information actually.. There would be some population loss but not necessarily anything that would fundamentally impact the long term prosperity of the country - There would be an impact in the short term even if its only a few percentage points.. I'm also thinking along the lines of future growth rates.. Do you think a seperate Quebec would continue a liberal immigration policy along the lines of the R.O.C.. It would be interesting to see what type of immigration policy the country would take on..
For a new world society, Quebec has an extremely strong sense of place. The way it feels like ''home'' to most of its residents is visceral, and in Canada is probably only rivalled by Newfoundland.

As for immigration, I would not expect much change from the status quo. Quebec over the last 10-20 years has actually become a major destination for immigration from francophone countries all over. Montreal has effectively become a major crossroads of the French-speaking world, arguably second only to Paris and ahead of second-tier cities in France and Brussels and Geneva. You can expect this to increase as France undergoes a certain amount of economic turmoil and questions the place of immigration in its society.

Even here in Gatineau, my kids' classmates represent a kaleidoscope of francophone countries from around the world (mostly from Africa, the Middle East and Europe, but also places like Vietnam, Haiti, etc.)

I know of kids from at least half of the member countries of the Francophonie in my kids' school, and there are likely a few more represented.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I would also say separation is probably a given unless something totally remarkable happens to stimulate adoption of French throughout the ROC. How does one go about convincing a majority population to agree to undergo such a metamorphism without it being seen as necessary or worse still, seen as another act of non-essential appeasement in their lives?

It's akin to convincing people to not shop at Walmart but actually spend more money and perhaps undergo some inconvenience to protect someone else's job on the other side of the country.
With all due respect if you see this as the kicker you are misreading Quebec in a big way. This isn't really about how much French (or not) there is in the provinces outside Quebec. On the language issue, it's very much an internal-to-Quebec question. It's about whether Quebec itself can freely define how it can best maintain its language and culture and allow it to thrive, with minimal interference (bad choice of words I know) from the rest of the country.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
For a new world society, Quebec has an extremely strong sense of place. The way it feels like ''home'' to most of its residents is visceral, and in Canada is probably only rivalled by Newfoundland.

As for immigration, I would not expect much change from the status quo. Quebec over the last 10-20 years has actually become a major destination for immigration from francophone countries all over. Montreal has effectively become a major crossroads of the French-speaking world, arguably second only to Paris and ahead of second-tier cities in France and Brussels and Geneva. You can expect this to increase as France undergoes a certain amount of economic turmoil and questions the place of immigration in its society.

Even here in Gatineau, my kids' classmates represent a kaleidoscope of francophone countries from around the world (mostly from Africa, the Middle East and Europe, but also places like Vietnam, Haiti, etc.)

I know of kids from at least half of the member countries of the Francophonie in my kids' school, and there are likely a few more represented.
Well - I feel like home in Toronto - I've even been accused of being a homer lol.. but I can't argue as visceral an experience as a Torontonian as I would for say a Quebecer because at the end of the day, as much as I really do love the Province, I am still an outsider and I get that. I don't understand it like you would or others would and I wouldn't pretend to try.. Don't discount T.O pride though - you too would have to live it to experience it.. Those who don't like it move somewhere else - One thing about Toronto is - we're used to getting crapped on in this country too.. If it keeps happening you might see a Golden Horseshoe separation movement in the future.. Though of course, I really do think when push comes to shove there are alot of common threads that bind us together that are more than just imposed upon us or mythical creations for a bunch of ignorant lemmings.

Anyway I think the fact that Quebec has become this destination for francophones from around the world in a United Canada does speak for something.. We even have a new Secretary General in what is it La Francophonie in Michealle Jean..Even within a united Canada if the turmoil continues to occur in France, Quebec would still be seen as a bastion for these people.. The economic benefits of a united Canada may actually make Quebec an even more appealing place to these people and of course to other Canadians including Anglophones..

Last edited by fusion2; 12-09-2014 at 08:49 PM..
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

Anyway I think the fact that Quebec has become this destination for francophones from around the world in a United Canada does speak for something.. We even have a new Secretary General in what is it La Francophonie in Michealle Jean..Even within a united Canada if the turmoil continues to occur in France, Quebec would still be seen as a bastion for these people.. The economic benefits of a united Canada may actually make Quebec an even more appealing place to these people and of course to other Canadians including Anglophones..
Yes. Montreal and Quebec's emerging role as a major global crossroads for La Francophonie is also partly a Canadian success story!
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Well - I feel like home in Toronto - I've even been accused of being a homer lol.. but I can't argue as visceral an experience as a Torontonian as I would for say a Quebecer because at the end of the day, as much as I really do love the Province, I am still an outsider and I get that. I don't understand it like you would or others would and I wouldn't pretend to try.. Don't discount T.O pride though - you too would have to live it to experience it.. Those who don't like it move somewhere else - One thing about Toronto is - we're used to getting crapped on in this country too.. If it keeps happening you might see a Golden Horseshoe separation movement in the future.. Though of course, I really do think when push comes to shove there are alot of common threads that bind us together that are more than just imposed upon us or mythical creations for a bunch of ignorant lemmings.

.
Oh, I can certainly see that there are Torontonians that can be as passionate about their home as any Montréalais or Québécois, but I don't believe the sentiment is as widespread across the general population.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yes. Montreal and Quebec's emerging role as a major global crossroads for La Francophonie is also partly a Canadian success story!
This is really what I like - common success stories that bind us together but at the same time respect the unique aspects of all our various parts. I don't know, I just think there is a way for us to all stay as a united country yet at the same time build on what makes each part successful and strong and I think this approach will ultimately bear the most fruit..

Now if the R.O.C starts showing some real love to T.O we'd like that too...
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,130,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Oh, I can certainly see that there are Torontonians that can be as passionate about their home as any Montréalais or Québécois, but I don't believe the sentiment is as widespread across the general population.
Don't worry honey - if we aren't there yet... We will be!!

#WeTheNorth | Toronto Raptors
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
Reputation: 8602
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Now if the R.O.C starts showing some real love to T.O we'd like that too...
Hey... don't push it now! (Just teasing you...)
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