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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 146 66.06%
No 75 33.94%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-05-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,548,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMike91 View Post
Fusion can you show us evidence that the referendum wasnt "a sham"? Everything I look at about it features allegations of fraud and other shady activity. Not saying it was necessarily a sham but maybe we can look at with an open mind and weigh the evidence for both sides.
That is the problem - we are a bunch of common folk in CD who are essentially not currently nor in the past involved with the political processes of decades ago debating 'allegations' - NONE of us have evidence one way or another so all this is - a debate about the past that will accomplish nothing... What is a fact - in 1980 the PM of Canada was from Quebec P.E.T.. In 1995 the PM of Canada was from Quebec J.C.

Now fast forward from the 1980's and 1990's and into recent history - the voters of Quebec in April of 2014 made it loud and clear where they want to proceed and what their priorities are for the near future.. We can dwell on heresay, allegations all we want and it won't be productive one iota.. Having an open mind about things one way or the other is irrelavent when there is zero proof one way or the other. If that proof made it to the public domain and it was credible than lets have a real open minded discussion as Chevy stated at the beginning of this thread.

As for feeling guilty about the British empires historical transgression - for Pete's sake my background is SCOTTISH!!!
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,663,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
As for feeling guilty about the British empires historical transgression - for Pete's sake my background is SCOTTISH!!!
Just to play Devil's Advocate - the Scottish are equally as guilty as the English in the British Empire. The widespread idea that the Scottish were in anyway subordinate or below the English is a just a myth. For example, the Scottish were actually the ones who colonized Ireland (to become the majority in Northern Ireland) and came to be called the Scots-Irish. The Scottish were as pro-Empire as you could get and it was in fact the Scottish who pushed for the unification of England and Scotland into Great Britain in the first place. The Scottish as a nation were in no way shape or form victims of the British Empire - they were the British Empire!
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,548,861 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Just to play Devil's Advocate - the Scottish are equally as guilty as the English in the British Empire. The widespread idea that the Scottish were in anyway subordinate or below the English is a just a myth. For example, the Scottish were actually the ones who colonized Ireland (to become the majority in Northern Ireland) and came to be called the Scots-Irish. The Scottish were as pro-Empire as you could get and it was in fact the Scottish who pushed for the unification of England and Scotland into Great Britain in the first place. The Scottish as a nation were in no way shape or form victims of the British Empire - they were the British Empire!
Yes but this guy Larry Kramer is opening up history to the beginning of time and cherry picking until his heart is content... I'm sure there were true blue Scots back in the day who had no desire to be a part of the 'empire'.

Anyway - mitochondrial DNA points to the fact that we all originated from a common ancestor in the African Great Rift Valley - should we all feel guilty that he was a hunter gatherer and killed living things..
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,663,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Yes but this guy Larry Kramer is opening up history to the beginning of time and cherry picking until his heart is content... I'm sure there were true blue Scots back in the day who had no desire to be a part of the 'empire'.

Anyway - mitochondrial DNA points to the fact that we all originated from a common ancestor in the African Great Rift Valley - should we all feel guilty that he was a hunter gatherer and killed living things..
Larry Kramer, I laughed. Yes I suppose we are all Africans.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,548,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Larry Kramer, I laughed. Yes I suppose we are all Africans.
Oops lol - I just watched How to Survive a Plague on Netflix
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:26 PM
 
Location: europe
77 posts, read 92,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Because not all of the residents of Quebec are native French speakers (French Canadians). About 85% of the population is. But the other 15% of the population that are either native English speakers (often born here and with fairly long family roots in Quebec) and people of other origins who are citizens also get to vote.

There is no stipulation that only French Canadians in Quebec get to vote. Anybody who is a Canadian citizen who has lived in Quebec for six months and is over the age of 18 gets to vote in Quebec elections.
Acajack thank you once again for your replies.
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Old 12-05-2014, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,548,861 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrycarver View Post
Hahaha exactly so in other words you have no evidence. Your case is dismissed.

Know this Fusion2: while you hibernate in your snow igloo, a steady movement for independence will still be thriving in Quebec. You and your seal hunting colleagues can fawn over this collaborator Couillard all you want, but millions of Quebecois are seeing right through it. This movement sees you and your boys for what you are: neo colonialists of the 21st century with Couillard just the latest puppet doing your dance.

Give me a shout when you can prove that the 1995 Quebec referendum wasn't rigged from the start.
Neither one of us has evidence so therefore both cases are dismissed... Having said that the burden of proof isn't on 'my' side its on yours - yer the one making the challenge, what is official is official and that is - at no point in the history of Canada has Quebec voted to seperate from Canada and at no point in history has Quebec seperated from Canada. The steady movement of seperatists has existed for a long time and their support has ebbed and flowed - what you are saying is shocking noone in here - and yer not scaring anyone either. We have lived with this situation for a long time.. If Quebec votes to seperate sometime in the future than that is ultimately for Quebec to decide - not you or I.. What I do know right now, Quebec is still an integral part of Canada.. You can call Mr Couillard a puppet all you want - all you are doing is slapping the face of the majority of Quebecers who voted for the man 7 short months ago. Oh wait let me guess, the 2014 Quebec Provincial election was rigged... Please someone play the violin!!

Look at the newest big black snow igloo in Toronto - she does any seal hunter in DT Toronto proud!

Canderel's Aura Condos at College Park Tests its Lighting Feature | Urban Toronto

Why don't you go ahead and put your energy into a system that actually elects a man/woman to the highest office who actually has the most votes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_2000

Truth be told - none of us know what the future will hold... I'm sure to some up until the 1990's that the U.S would always have the highest PPP GDP in the world... Things change - are you ready?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its...o-2-2014-12-04

Last edited by fusion2; 12-05-2014 at 09:12 PM..
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Old 12-06-2014, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
3,178 posts, read 2,590,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
... Having said that the burden of proof isn't on 'my' side its on yours - yer the one making the challenge....
Or, we could say:

Semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit.

"The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges."
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Old 12-06-2014, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Toronto
13,330 posts, read 13,548,861 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrycarver View Post
Wow. My friend you can't let that inferiority complex run your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzhUw-XaG8o
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Old 12-07-2014, 12:11 AM
 
16,966 posts, read 23,114,247 times
Reputation: 15244
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeMike91 View Post
What do you think? Does the Quebec independence movement carry legitimate grievances, or are they a group of opportunistic troublemakers?
The fact they speak a different language should be enough
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