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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post
Do you agree with this? Or do you feel this kind of constant national debate also exists in anglophone Canada, not just in Quebec? And it's not just "are we racist or not?", it can be many other questions as well; as I said in Quebec we've got national debates on anything, down to whether the variety of French we speak is "correct" or not and almost on whether we deserve to exist as a people. Because I don't feel it's the case; the impression I have is that English Canadians usually just assert their greatness without asking themselves any question.
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Actually I don't agree... Of course I don't know Q.C society as well as society in Ontario but no I don't think the default position is that we just 'assert' our greatness at all.. Could we have more open discussions about issues - sure I think that is a fair comment but this is something all of us can do.. Is there perhaps some reserve about us - perhaps yes but, Its not limited to just "Anglo Canada"

I think all Canadians could benefit more from being open-minded and understanding!
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post
You really aren't getting this, are you? Let me help you again. I've already explained why I support Migratory Chicken's views more than I do yours on this occasion, including the reflexively anti-American bit which he raises (although I don't necessarily link that particular phenomenon to any kind of inferiority complex). It isn't all about you, you know. Feel free to go back and read what I've already offered again if you need to do so.

Anti-American sentiment is central to many a Canadian's identity in my opinion. I'd suggest that there are four fictions to which Canadians across the land often appeal when they think of Canada:
  1. hospitals -- Medicare, that is: Canada's publicly-funded universal health insurance system;
  2. hockey -- "our game";
  3. the RCMP -- the Mountie in his/her Red Serge, atop his/her steed, keeping the country safe for one and all; and
  4. an irrational hatred of all things American.
Question them at your peril. (Some might put the CBC on such a list, but it has a bit more of a niche appeal in my experience. And for some insane reason, people have started to link Tim Horton's, that pedestrian chain of coffee shops, with the Canadian identity, but I expect that particular association will pass with the effluxion of time.)
We'll just leave this as though we have different opinions on the matter... Based on this post, that is even more clear to me now. I don't 'get it' according to you and you don't 'get it' according to me..

I can live with that and move on.. We both have our differing opinions on the matter...
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:49 PM
 
1,316 posts, read 2,032,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
We'll just leave this as though we have different opinions on the matter... Based on this post, that is even more clear to me now. I don't 'get it' according to you and you don't 'get it' according to me..

I can live with that and move on.. We both have our differing opinions on the matter...
What you don't seem to get is that I didn't say you stated anything about Migratory Chicken's observations concerning the self-laudatory and the reflexive anti-American nature of many anglophone Canadians, yet you took that ball and ran with it for some reason. That's all. What I did necessarily imply is that Migratory Chicken made some good points about certain Canadian attitudes, attitudes which I'm sure both Migratory Chicken and others have observed in past interactions with our anglophone Canadian peers.

This isn't about you or about anything you stated. This is about Migratory Chicken and things that he stated. Are we on the same page now?
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,348,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I don't think its wrong for Canadians to sound off what is good about the country.. .

I don't think it's wrong either. But I think it's inaccurate to claim as some do that Canadians don't really do it.

Canadians (especially these days) can boast with the best of them.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I don't think it's wrong either. But I think it's inaccurate to claim as some do that Canadians don't really do it.

Canadians (especially these days) can boast with the best of them.
Do you really think we are more boastful than most other nations? Besides, I kind of like the fact that we aren't necessarily as reserved and docile as before.. I think it is a very different thing to be proud of achievements versus being ignorant of others with a sense of superiority.. I really don't feel we are like that but again, I can't change the experiences that some people have.. I can only base my opinion on my own experience and i'm entirely comfortable expressing that. I personally don't think we've crossed the threshold of being collectively a brash, ignorant or boastful nation. If I observe otherwise I will be open about it and would react negatively to that.. There are some like that but for every one of those I think there are 4 or 5 who are able to take stock in the good things about Canada while at the same time being open to the things that we really need to work on - which is most certainly the case..

Last edited by fusion2; 02-11-2015 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maclock View Post

This isn't about you or about anything you stated. This is about Migratory Chicken and things that he stated. Are we on the same page now?
No we're not.. Do you demand otherwise? Look we have a different view about this.. You have sent me a private message stating i'm loopy and accusing me of being Captain Toronto or Captain Canada yet you seem to just dodge my points and ignore when I am indeed critical of both T.O and Canada.. You're latching onto my views that will support whatever narrative about me that you think frames your view and I don't think you see the entire picture..

Some people are just not going to see eye to eye on things - I get that..

The key difference between us is that I don't think Canadians have this widespread inferiority complex with respect to the U.S or a strong desire to differentiate ourselves from them.. I think we are simply proud of our achievements as a nation. Nothing wrong with it! Are we a bit ignorant collectively, i'd say that is a fair assertion and you know what, that is the case with more than just a handful of nations in the world, its by and large how most of us are but mindless boasters with an inferiority complex, I think not and yes I think that is a generalization and it is simplistic.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,947 posts, read 27,348,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Do you really think we are more boastful than most other nations? .
Canadians are among the more boastful people I've met out there on the international travel circuit, for example. It's only occasionally unpleasant, but it does leave the impression among foreigners that we are very proud of our country. The majority of other nationalities are more low-key, in my experience anyway.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 11,139,702 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canadians are among the more boastful people I've met out there on the international travel circuit, for example. It's only occasionally unpleasant, but it does leave the impression among foreigners that we are very proud of our country. The majority of other nationalities are more low-key, in my experience anyway.
Well, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:16 PM
 
873 posts, read 814,788 times
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We as Canadians would know when the independence movement got serious and legitimate. There would be a lot of warnings before hand. Any history book can make you predict this. There would be protests going on everyday in both in Quebec and outside of Quebec, posters everywhere, increased tension of the people, news and media propaganda and this would all lead to another referendum that would lead to the official separation of Quebec. We aren't close to that (May be in the future, hopefully not though) There are a lot of other issues Francophones and Anglophones are worried about now including the economy, wanting to get good jobs to feed their family, human rights, health care, etc. So for now it's all talk and not a really serious movement.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Alberta, Canada
2,172 posts, read 1,752,214 times
Reputation: 2641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Canadians are among the more boastful people I've met out there on the international travel circuit, for example. It's only occasionally unpleasant, but it does leave the impression among foreigners that we are very proud of our country. The majority of other nationalities are more low-key, in my experience anyway.
You have a point. I well remember heading for Europe in the late 1970s, and being told by parents and older relatives remembering WWII, "Let them know that you are Canadian. You'll be treated better than Americans." But, as my experience showed in Europe, Europeans--of my generation anyway, born well after WWII--didn't care if you were Canadian or American.

If we come across as boastful, it may be because we sound American to European English-speakers. Understandable, and I have been asked repeatedly in English pubs, the London Tube, and English train stations, "So, where in the States do you come from?" I've also been asked the same in Australia. After being asked that six or more times a day, it is natural to reply with, "I'm NOT American, I am Canadian." It's more exasperation than it is being boastful.

I've never been boastful. But I have been fed up with being mistaken for an American. Perhaps it is the Europeans' fault for not realizing that there are two countries in North America, whose English-speakers sound pretty much the same to their ears.
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