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View Poll Results: Is Quebec Independence a Legitimate Movement?
Yes 106 66.67%
No 53 33.33%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2015, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post

Now I'll be asking a difficult question, and I'm curious to know what especially you Acajack think about it. Many posters here seem to believe that only independence for Quebec could solve the current "problem" of there being several nations in Canada. They believe that it will always spring up until Quebec becomes independent, because there is no way that Canada will ever recognise its own multinational reality. Now, I agree with them that if at some point it might have been possible to include Quebec in a re-thought Canada, now it will never happen. But at the same time independence isn't gaining any ground in Quebec, and it seems that younger Quebecers especially are strongly opposed to it. This is a new phenomenon: at some point PQ strategists thought that as older federalists died off, sovereignty would become inevitable, but now it seems that it's been the dream of at most one and a half generations.

There are many reasons for this. First, young francophones are born after the language struggles of the 1960s and 1970s. They are children of Bill 101 and it's made them more secure. Second, they tend to have a "globalist" perspective and be wary of all nationalisms. But my question is, how do these young federalist francophones (or to extend the question, Quebec federalists as a whole) view Canada? Do they accept the "multiculturalist" perspective, in which francophones are but one of Canada's many ethnocultural groups? To be sure, young urban francophones often speak good English, or would like to speak it well, so maybe they accept the idea of French as the "ethnic" language and English as the "global" one. In this case they are likely to accept the status quo, and it could even lead to a decline of francophone culture if it ends up being perceived as parochial, while anglophone culture is seen as worldly. Or do they believe in the "bilingualism coast-to-coast" ideal, which would unavoidably end up conflicting with reality? Or do they have yet another view of Canada, and of how the French language fits in it?

I'm curious to know what you think about this, Acajack, who have children in a francophone public school with friends from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.
I hope to give a longer answer maybe later tonight or tomorrow, but generally speaking the young kids (kids, preteens and teens) seem to see French in Quebec as a fait-accompli. It's not something most would feel passionate about defending, I suspect, but on the other and the idea of not having it as the main language would seem unnatural. In a sense, it's almost like the way anglophones feel about language. Or maybe more accurately how people in the Netherlands or Denmark do.

This also appears to be true of kids of other origins. French is the natural language for all of them to use when socializing, etc. None of them complain that it would have been better to go to English school for example. Even the vast majority of kids who are of franco-anglo marriages that I know have French as the go-to language for their friendships, etc. They may include the odd expression in English (''as if!" "gimme a break!'') but generally speaking they interact in French even if their English can often be very good.

As for being attracted to English sure it's there. Especially popular music. As kids get older there is on the part of some (but not all) an educational and career interest with respect to English.

I am not sure if it's really much different from what you have in places like Scandinavia TBQH.

As I said, I do see interest in English among young people, but it's very much a second language and supplementary cultural thing as opposed to an eagerness to replace one's native language with it.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migratory Chicken View Post

But see, you admit yourself that when you lived outside Quebec, you were strongly opposed to any "special" treatment for Quebec. Think back on how you thought back then. I guess you figure that if you changed your mind, other Canadians can too. But the fact that you're francophone makes you different from most Canadians. At some point you may have bought into the myth of coast-to-coast bilingualism, but then it conflicted with your personal experience. So you had to change your view of Canada, you may have accepted that Quebec was justified in enacting Bill 101 given the circumstances, and from there you decided that an asymmetrical Canada wouldn't be a bad idea. But as you understood when debating with them, most Canadians would have no reason to doubt Canada's myths in regard to French.

.
You're right but on the other hand things can and do change. Who would have thought we'd have same-sex marriage one day? Or a black man in the White House?
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:26 PM
 
215 posts, read 296,184 times
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first Im an American who's never set foot north of Kentucky, let alone Canada, so its obvious my comment here is going to be extremely ignorant in terms of experience

but, honestly from an outsider's perspective (at least from what I have seen on the internet/message boards etc..) I mean DAMN, it seems from some posters Ive witnessed on other sites with regards to this subject that you Anglo-Canadians and French Canadiennes seriously HATE each other

I mean, Im from the Southern U.S., we are like the most hated, most divisive region in our country, everyone hatesus and we pretty much hate them too, but even the crap I get from other Americans is like NOTHING I see when I see this issue going on between Francophones and Anglophones in Canada

I maybe wrong about this but one poster I met at another site talked of just how he, an Anglophone Canadian went to a smaller town in Quebec and they just HATED him for no other reason than he was an English speaker

I know Quebec is bilingual for purpose of business, other reasons, etc... but in this smaller town he just talked of how bad it was and they just laid it on him left and right and even one incident of a Canadian being denied medical service because they didn't speak French

that may or may not be true, but just in general from what I have seen between you Canadians, this issue is like our American Civil War x50

I have seen posters from both sides of this issue in Canada and you all just HATE each other over this issue I mean you REALLY do. its mind boggling from an American perspective

Im not trying to attack anyone or anyone's opinion. I personally have no opinion about it since I don't live there but its interesting to say the least how you Francophone and Anglophone Canadians react toward each other over this and, I maybe dead wrong but from my limited viewing of people talking on this, it seems the Francophones are truly the most hostile of all and ,they, more than anyone else hate the Anglophones really bad, generally speaking.

Im sure its not so bad in larger areas but in real Quebec or the smaller places where real people live, I don't know, is it really like that? do Francopohones seriously hate alot of the Anglophones over this and over cultural differences in general. It's just from what little I have seen which is admittingly very little

but, its interesting to see the different sides of all of this, especially from an American perspective because there seems to be no middle ground with you Canadians when it comes to this issue.

and it maybe political but I see this as something every single Canadian, Anglo and Francophone takes extremely personally and the way you all attack each other over it or over your cultural differences is just, surprising to me sometimes.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenn82 View Post

that may or may not be true, but just in general from what I have seen between you Canadians, this issue is like our American Civil War x50

.
Except with about 650,000 fewer deaths.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenn82 View Post
I maybe dead wrong but from my limited viewing of people talking on this, it seems the Francophones are truly the most hostile of all and ,they, more than anyone else hate the Anglophones really bad, generally speaking.

Im sure its not so bad in larger areas but in real Quebec or the smaller places where real people live, I don't know, is it really like that? do Francopohones seriously hate alot of the Anglophones over this and over cultural differences in general. It's just from what little I have seen which is admittingly very little

.
That's not really the case but of course this will denied vehemently on here.

Keep in mind though that most French speaking Canadians don't come on forums like this in English and so the views, opinions and anecdotes on here will be heavily skewed to the anglophone side of things.

You're not necessarily getting an unbiased view.
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Old 02-22-2015, 09:08 PM
 
215 posts, read 296,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's not really the case but of course this will denied vehemently on here.

Keep in mind though that most French speaking Canadians don't come on forums like this in English and so the views, opinions and anecdotes on here will be heavily skewed to the anglophone side of things.

You're not necessarily getting an unbiased view.
point taken
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Old 02-22-2015, 09:14 PM
 
215 posts, read 296,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Except with about 650,000 fewer deaths.
you know what I mean

I just meant the level of hostility it brings about at times.






and wasn't there some French Canadian terrorist group back in the 80's or something? Im being serious. Im not trying to be sarcastic. I read about them at one time although I presume they didn't last long


anyway, Viva le Quebcoise

and it's Canadienne, right?

not Canadian


honestly the reason I even looked at this stuff ever before is because one of my remote ancestor's statue's stands outside the Parlaiment building in Montreal.

Im not from Cajun ancestry but it's like your name too, how Acadjouns (?) became Cajuns even though they weren't from Quebec.
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:37 AM
 
34,360 posts, read 41,436,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
That's not really the case but of course this will denied vehemently on here.

Keep in mind though that most French speaking Canadians don't come on forums like this in English and so the views, opinions and anecdotes on here will be heavily skewed to the anglophone side of things.

You're not necessarily getting an unbiased view.
Although we may disagree on much Your efforts at giving us the francophone side of the story are not unappreciated.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenn82 View Post



and wasn't there some French Canadian terrorist group back in the 80's or something? Im being serious. Im not trying to be sarcastic. I read about them at one time although I presume they didn't last long
They were active during the 1960s and basically ceased to exist in 1970.

The last act of political violence in Quebec was perpetrated in 2012 by a deranged anglo by the name of Richard Bain. He wanted to assassinate separatist premier Pauline Marois at her victory party. He ended up shooting two techie guys backstage, killing one of them.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
21,937 posts, read 27,326,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenn82 View Post

anyway, Viva le Quebcoise

and it's Canadienne, right?

not Canadian
Québécois is masculine. Québécoise is feminine.

Canadien is masculine. Canadienne is feminine.

Canadian works too - in English.
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